Prima Secundae
102. Causes and Effects of Hope: Experience, Youth, Drunkenness, and How Hope Leads to Love (ST I-II q.40 a.5-7)
Class of 2013-01-24
https://berquistcourse.com/course/theology/11-prima-secundae/102-causes-and-effects-of-hope-experience-youth-drunkenness-and/

[0:00] Now I think I mentioned before, you know, but I was I was reading the disputed question on spiritual creatures there of Thomas and. You know, beautiful the way he he understands Aristotle. He says that Aristotle, you know, talks about reason in likeness to the senses. You see, Aristotle takes up the senses in the the De Anima, right, in the second book. He takes up reason in the third book, right?

[0:27] Huh? And he begins his discussion of reason. He says, "Well, he says, just as the senses are able to sense before they actually sense, right? So reason is able to understand before it actually understands, right? " So he's taking what's more known to us, right, and kind of confirming, right, and leading us along like that, right? Well, I'm kind of struck by when I read this thing, you know, huh?

[0:51] I can go from hope here as an emotion, right, to hope as a what act of the will, right, and even you know the virtue there and the will there, which is the virtue of hope, right? Okay.

[1:08] Okay. Um. Okay, that's indirect before I guess, huh? That's pretty good, huh? That's interesting, huh? Interesting. That's a beautiful thing, that question. That. When he's criticizing the position of Averroes, right, huh? That there's one possible understanding for all men, you know. Thomas doesn't see much in that at all, right? And he's very thorough in his refutation, right? That's followed by the next one, whether there's one agent intellect, right, for everyone, and of course he's going to reach the same conclusion.

[1:55] But when he begins, when he begins, he says, "Well, some say that the agent intellect is a power of our soul, right? And some say, no, it's a higher thing, like an angel or God himself, right? Huh? And who's enlightening us, right? And Thomas says, well, there's some truth in both. And it's really beautiful the way he develops this, right? Huh? You know, he does show that we have a power, you know, that enlightens us, right?

[2:24] But this power was what partaking in God's thing. So there's a God before us, right? Okay. But then he gets the second argument. The first one is based upon, you know, this is a participated light, right? It's only a small part of us, right? So we're participating in some greater light, huh? But then he says, he goes back to the argument that everything in motion depends upon something that's not in motion.

[2:53] You know, things developed in the eight books of physics, and reason, reason understands per modum motus motus, he says, and that's discourse, he says, right? Okay, because sometimes it runs from the effect to the cause, sometimes it runs from the cause to the effect, sometimes it runs from like to like, some from opposite to opposite, right? But it's motion, but motion depends upon something that doesn't move, right?

[3:23] So our mind, we suppose the mind that knows without having to move, because God's like actually, and then and then I've struck very much because when Aristotle talks about our mind, you know, in the third book, he says that it knows an ability before it knows an act, right? So when the thing that goes from ability to act, it's an ability before it's an act, but it goes from ability to act because it's something already in act, and therefore Aristotle touches about there's a mind that is in act, right?

[4:02] Entirely, yeah, it's the divine mind, right? And so it's kind of beautiful way Thomas is saying that although we do have some power of illumination, it's partaking of God's one, right? It depends upon His unchangeable knowing and His completely actual knowing, right? Beautifully develops it, right? You realize why does Aristotle mean it in this? He did, he must know it, right? You know, that's the thing he develops most of all in the ninth book.

[4:27] You know, he talks about ability and act. Absolutely beautiful what Thomas does there. Smart guy Thomas. Yet he says that the order between his mind and my mind is per accidens. Well he says the order among the angelic minds is is per se. And it's beautiful when he's talking about how in the there's no two angels of the same kind, and therefore the order among them is per se.

[5:04] When you have many individuals of the same kind, the order is kind of accidental, right? It's an accidental that Obama's ruling us now, right? You know, so that you know, it's not the nature of things that that these guys who are even in Congress are actually ruling us. You know, what are they doing there? It's kind of

[5:28] per accidens, right? I remember once in the yard talking a little bit about that. You know, there's there's something similar, you know, to my putting my mind under Thomas, as a teacher, right, or under the great Euclid in geometry. You know, I put my mind under these great guys. They're above me in some ways, you know. And that's like you know the lower angel being under the higher angel, right?

[5:47] But it's much more substantial that order, much more per se, you know, in the order of me under Thomas, you know. And and sometimes I'd say, you know, I know Thomas might be mistaken about the sun and the moon and the stars, you know. Yeah. Might be mistaken about the act of conception too, yeah. You know, so it's not an absolute order there, you know. But for the most part, you know, that father is just beautiful, beautiful mind, dear.

[6:19] You have these pictures of Thomas, you know, coming in, you know, at the school there, and the some young guy, you know, objecting to what he says, you know. And Thomas sits down, you know, and very gradually explains the guy, you know. Everybody else is scandalized at Thomas sitting down, you know, and instruct this guy, you know, huh? You know. It's like with Heisenberg and Bohr the first time they met, huh?

[6:44] Because I mean, Bohr, I mean, Heisenberg was just a you know student at the time, you know. But in the question period, he posed an objection, you know, and Bohr, you know, gave a reply, you know, but maybe it wasn't his own reply, you know. He answered the objection, you know, but you know, people looking over at Heisenberg, you know. You know, and so at the end of the question period, he wrote to Heisenberg and he said, "Let's go for a walk, you and I, just you and I."

[7:16] We went for a walk, you know, hours, you know, back and forth. And Heisenberg said, "It influenced all his subsequent thinking about the atom, you know, and you know, and more than one book. He always goes back to those, you know, impressions that Bohr made, you know,

[7:31] or even you know, with some of the other guys, you know, the like a father-son relation there with this guy, you know." Okay, so let's go on to whether the cause of hope is experience, huh?

[7:55] To the fifth, then one goes forward. Thus, it seems that hope, experience, is not a cause of hope, right? For experience pertains to the knowing power,

[8:11] whence the philosopher says in second book of ethics that the understanding power needs experience and what time? huh? But Shakespeare says, Oh, time, thou must untangle this"? Not I. It is too hard. I'm not for me to untie. So Aristotle says in the ethics that time is a good help, right? Socrates, of course. But hope is not in the knowing power, but in the desiring powers, has been said, right?

[8:47] So therefore, experience is not a cause of hope, right? So if you see the premises and the syllogism are the cause of the conclusion, or they're both in the mind, right? The premises of the illusion, right? But here you've got two different. Moreover, the philosopher says in the second book of rhetoric. This is a beautiful thing that he, Aristotle, describes the difference between a young man, an old man, and and he didn't say middle age, but the man in his prime, right?

[9:16] Okay. Moreover, the philosopher says in the second book of the rhetoric that the old men are of what? Typical hope. Yeah, on account of experience, right? But the young man is filled up with too much hope, right? That's why he makes mistakes, right? You know, but the old man can't get anything done because he's he's he's a different guy. From which it seems that experience is the cause of the defect of hope.

[9:43] That's a beautiful objection, right? Something of that in one of the saints from Russia said instead of instead of talking about hope, he's talking about faith. He says, "A monk is a man slow to believe." Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[10:02] They were questioning, you know, Mrs. Clinton there, you know, about this Benghazi thing, you know, and they didn't get too much information, you know, but some of the, you know, old hands are saying, I didn't expect to get much, you know, didn't have much hope that they're going to get much. Yeah, yeah. It's gonna run around, you know. But the same is not the cause of opposites, right?

[10:25] So how can experience be the cause of what hope when it's what diverse, right? Therefore, experience is not the cause of hope. Moreover, the philosopher says in the second book about the heavens, about the universe, that what to say something about or to enunciate about all things something right and to admit nothing sometimes is a sign of stupidity, right? Stultitia But that a man attempts all things would seem to pertain to the magnitude of what hope, right?

[11:04] You see the magnanimous man has got this magnitude of hope, but he's what capable of it, right? You know. So they say about Mozart, he's the man who always what arrives at his goal, right? You know.

[11:25] But stupidity arrives from inexperience, right? How could I have been so stupid, right? I haven't experienced these things, right? Therefore, inexperience seems to be more a cause of hope. than experience. Yeah, yeah. So Aristotle says the young man has got more hope than the old man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true, right? I remember in my own life and academic world, you know, when I was in in high school, you know, I said I'll be glad to get out of here and get to college and do some real things, you know, and then I realized college is not such a great thing after all.

[12:03] I'll be going to guy here, not like into graduate school, you know, and then you realize the graduate school is not always, you know. And you say, well, I'll be kind of a guy trying to get into teaching, you know, and then you say, well, that's a great thing after all. But the younger man has got this hope, you know. He's always going to go on to something better.

[12:20] But against this is what the philosopher says in the third book of the ethics, that some are of good hope, right, on account of many times and many he is overcome, right, huh? Okay.

[12:40] Which pertains to what experience, right? Therefore, experience is a cause of what Hope hope, huh? I answer: It should be said that it has been said above that the adjective hope is, and notice this thing is very precise, bonum futurum, right.

[13:06] arduum, possibile adipisci right, I say desire. You can say desire and love are for a bonum, right? But desire is for a bonum what? Futurum. But hope is for a bonum futurum. Arduum, right? And then hope is opposed to what? Despair is. Yeah, it's beautiful the way he's got to order it, right? Sapientis has to order an art, right? He orders things for you, right?

[13:42] And he answers to me sometimes. Why don't you pay more attention to this professor? I says, well, he's not. Doesn't have the order you have. He didn't pursue it any further. The

[13:56] other guy's a bit too busy. So something is able to be the cause of hope, either because it makes for a man something to be possible, right? Huh? Or because it makes him what? Think. Yeah. Estimate something is being possible, right? Okay.

[14:26] Now, in the first way, that is a cause of hope. Everything that what increases the power of a man, right? Huh? Okay. Has wealth, right? Huh? Fortitude, right? Strength. And among other things, also what? Experience, right? Okay.

[14:49] So if you cook the same kind of meal many times, you go in the kitchen with a certain what? Hope. Hope. Yeah. Yeah. For through experience, a man acquires the facility, right, of the ability of easily what? Doing something Doing something. Okay. And from this, there follows what? Hope. Right. I used to make biscuits every Friday. That's right. I got better and better, and I knew I could make great biscuits.

[15:18] I just like black beans and black beans. Forget just like that. And there was. I have to say, there were never any leftovers. Yeah. And

[15:29] I did it every Friday for a long time. Hence Vegetius says in his book on the military thing, right, that no one what Fears. fears to do that which he is confident to have what Done well done well.

[15:50] In another way, that is a cause of hope. Everything that makes someone estimate, huh, that something is what possible for him, right? Or to guess that it's possible for him, right?

[16:04] And in this way, both what doctrine, teaching, and persuasion can be a cause of what hope, right? And thus, also experience is a cause of hope, in so far as through experience there comes for a man the estimate that something is what possible for him that before was regarded as impossible. Would Aristotle say going to the moon? That's impossible. Stupid idea to go to the moon. Think it's kind of stupid.

[16:42] Yeah, yeah. But now that you have experience of you know placing a man on the moon, you know, you say no, I'll probably go to Mars someday. You know what? But it's probably from our experience, right?

[17:01] But through, but in this way, experience can also be the cause of the what. Lack of. Yeah, that's the old man, right? Okay. Because just as through experience there comes into a man the estimate that something is possible for him, right? Huh? That he regards as impossible. So also a converso, through experience, there comes to be in man the guess that something is not possible for him that before he had thought was possible, right?

[17:37] Like reforming politics in Washington. Yeah, yeah. That's what that's what Belloc. He thought you know he could make a change in Parliament. Yeah. And he got out and he just despaired. He says no way.

[17:54] He experienced how the corruption is too deep. Yeah. Washington. Yeah. Not going to be talking about the deficit any just. They're they're going to give some you know raise some money or spend some money you know to help the people there in Connecticut and New York to help the hurt in the water there and about fifty sixty dollars fifty sixty thousand or million rather and it turned out that about thirteen of it was for those people and the rest of it was pork, you know.

[18:28] Yeah. Absolutely incredible. They can't resist. Yeah. Yeah. The trough, it's the trough. Everybody goes to the trough. Yeah. That's therefore experience is a cause of hope in two ways, but a cause of the defect of hope in one way, right? And on account of this, one can say more that it is a cause of what hope, right? He's not denying the truth on the other side, there, right?

[19:08] So for the old man, right? Some wisdom and his caution there, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So many times you have to run for office and not get elected before you realize that you're not.

[19:30] Now he says to the first well the argument that's now in power. To the first, therefore, it should be said that experience in things to be done not only causes knowledge, but it also causes certain habit on account of what custom, which makes the operation more what easy, right? But

[19:53] the intellectual virtue, right, huh, makes for the power of doing something what easily, right, huh? For it shows something to be possible, and thus it causes hope, right, huh? So we had the plumber out there to the house the other day, right? I'm glad, you know. I thought it might be down here, right under the sink, you know, right where that it was accumulating, you know. But you know, you had to go way, way, way, way down, you know.

[20:21] First time didn't get it, you know, but they ran into something. They thought they got it, and they went down the second time, you know. But I never would have had a thing, you know, to go down that far, you know. So, but for him, you know, it's just you know, he didn't routine. I was telling him that Einstein said, you know, if he had to do it over again, he'd be a plumber.

[20:42] That's right. Another reason why, but it's kind of simple science, you know. In some sense, you know. To make bigger bucks. Yeah, who needs a Nobel Prize? I need to get food on the table. That's the thing.

[21:02] And thus it causes hope, right? Because it's giving you the power, right? Now to the second, this is the objection where it's not causing hope, right? It should be said that in the old, like Berquist, he's old, seventy-seven years. Last birthday was seventy-seven. Oh man, yeah.

[21:26] There's a defect on the account of what experience in the old man, right? Insofar as experience makes them estimate something to be what impossible, right? Now, if you thought you're going to change Washington, and I realized you can't, okay.

[21:43] When Kennedy expressed, you know, surprise that orders were not carried out, I think he gives an order and just gets lost somewhere down the line, you know.

[21:57] Shock. Yeah, people just don't jump when I say so. You know, you can't. You know, I mean, the bureaucracy you know, it gets lost as going down the bureaucracy

[22:14] That's when people get surprised when emails don't show up. Yeah. Once there is is added, there many things turn out bad and deteriorate, right? Okay.

[22:29] Now, to third, should be said that stupidity and inexperience can be a cause of hope, as it were, what per accidens, right? By removing, to wit, the knowledge to which one would truly estimate something to not be what possible, right?

[22:55] That's like the children. Father Anthony Kramer, told us when he was a little child, He and his buddies were determined they were going to dig a hole in the front yard all the way to China. They were digging and digging and digging. They thought they were really going to get there. Yeah. Yeah, we were at the lake one time this summer, you know, and. Kind of sandy soil there, so I got out and I was digging down, and and finally I was you know down like this, you know.

[23:20] My brother Richard came out of my mother, and they were afraid that things were going to collapse on top of me, and they said, "Get out of there and fill up the hole that you've dug now." You know, but so easy to dig, you know. You know, there's no. I mean, here you here you could run into all kinds of stones, and you know you're going to be discouraged before you get that far.

[23:36] Yeah, In this valley for sure. you know, this is another horizon. Yeah, yeah. I mean, a lot of times, you know, I'm I'm digging the thing to to plant something, you know, and it's kind of you know iffy. Is going to hit a stone, you know, that's really too big to move, you know, because sometimes yeah, the stone's really big there, you know, New England soil, you know.

[23:54] This whole field, They broke their drill They tried to drill a hole for the telephone pole. Yeah. they had this big drill that cost, what, 25, 000 bucks or something. They broke it right ahead. Hit a rock. That's it. Done.

[24:14] Too bad we can't sell them. Once, for the same reason, inexperience is a cause of hope. That experience is a cause of the defect of what hope. Hope, yeah. So

[24:31] it's interesting that Thomas has this article, but here he's distinguishing something on both sides, right? It is both a cause of what Hope, Hope and can be a cause of what Despair too, right?

[24:50] Should we take a break or should we continue? Take a break. Okay. Within the young and the... Oh, I have to watch. how much wine I drink today? Oh my goodness!

[25:03] Whether the second one proceeds thus, it seems that youth and what Drunkenness drunkenness, I guess, are not the cause of hope, right? For hope implies a certain certitude and firmness, right? Whence Hebrews six, hope is compared to a what anchor?

[25:29] It's funny because Rose and I got into where were we? Going to the airport, yeah. The guy in front of me, I first thought he was a clerk, you know, it's kinda you know like in a black thing you know, so. And then I saw the anchor there, right? The brothers of hope, they come, they come here all the time. Yeah, yeah, but but this guy was was going to.

[25:47] We flew from here from you know Rhode Island there airport to Baltimore, right? And then from Baltimore to Kansas, right? And so first he was going back, you know, from Christmas vacation to the air to the thing. So I saw the anchor there, you know. So first I said, "Oh, I see. Is that the anchor of hope?" I said. He said, "Yes, you're a nice guy, you know.

[26:13] You're a gentleman, you know. You know, and tend to get some of these real gentlemen inside these academies, you know. But here I'm struck by just struck me, you know, that they compare hope to the anchor, right?

[26:28] But the young and the drunk fail from firmness, right? For they have a soul that is easily what moveable, right? Therefore, youth and drunkenness are not a cause of what hope, right?

[26:49] Moreover, those things which increase power, most of all, are a cause of hope. But youth and drunkenness have a certain what weakness enjoined to them, right? Therefore, they are not a cause of hope, right?

[27:09] Moreover, experience is a cause of hope, as has been said. But in the young, experience is what lacking, yeah. Therefore, youth is not a cause of what hope, right? But against this is what the philosophy says in the third book of the ethics that the inebriated are hoping well, right? Oinoumenoi eupelpides the second rhetoric, he says that the youth are of good what hope, right? It's contrasted to the old, right?

[27:41] See why why the guys in the prime of life, right? They don't have either the defect of the old or the defect of the young, right? So we speak of you know old age and young and then middle age you know but Aristotle doesn't speak of that he speaks of young and old in what the prime of life right the intellect is best at what forty nine yeah yeah Shakespeare's education is how many words yeah that by chance I don't know Thomas says that the square number has the same symbolism as what the number that's being squared so forty nine is the same symbolism as seven It's a symbol of wisdom

[28:26] St. Bonaventure in the beginning of this prologue to the gifts of the Holy Spirit he goes through seven groups of seven things yeah the septum, septunari, he calls it. Yeah yeah He goes through how important it is how the yeah I noticed there was was it the apostles there they went out in the boat and they went twenty five or thirty prolong or whatever yeah yeah Thomas even stops on that twenty five he says well then a square number has the what symbolism of the root.

[28:58] yeah so five right so those who adhere to the to the law which is symbolized by the five books of Moses right well then they're going to be helped by Christ right now or thirty well then you have the law multiplied by the perfect number six right which is the New Testament right and they also will be met met by Christ I mean it's kind of beautiful way they do those things but you got to study Euclid you know before you have the proper appreciation of numbers that that the instead Augustine and Thomas and so on right

[29:37] okay I answer it should be said that youth is a cause of hope on account of three things huh as the philosopher says in the second book of the rhetoric right who is this philosopher that he's referring to all the time In my text, they got the Philosophers there with the capital P you know if I you know copy text and don't have the capital P I always put a capital P in there if I see it

[30:07] and these three things can be taken according to three conditions of the good which is the object of hope what else what a solid-minded guy has that it is future and it is arduous and that it's what Awesome. Possible as it has been said huh for the youth have much of the future right and little of the what past right see what the old man he's got a lot of everything's in the past yeah everything's gone yeah he always talks

[30:41] about what he's done not what he's going to do and therefore memories of the past but hope of the what future right They have little of memory, but they live much in hope. That's

[30:59] good. That's what my mother says. She says children outgrow their parents, but parents don't outgrow their children. That's what she puts it. That's another way of saying

[31:10] it. Youth, on account of the hotness of their nature, right? have many what? Spiritous things, huh? And thus, in them, the core is what the heart is expanding. Expanding, yeah, yeah.

[31:26] And it's from the amplitude of the heart that someone tends towards what difficult, difficult things, huh? And therefore, youth are animosi in good hope, right? Yeah. That's why the army wants you when you're young, right? Huh? You know, old men would be too cautious, right? You know. Yeah. Not a good person. You've been in a few battles? Yeah. Yeah. He went. Douglas MacArthur went down there to Mexico.

[31:56] There, you know, on his first things, you know, before the First World War, you know, and they shot at him, you know, and he had I don't know how many bullet holes through his head, you know, and you know wasn't hit at all himself, though, you know, and somebody says, you know, you're.

[32:10] The thing that he did in the First World War, you know, extremely brave, you know, huh, McCarthy, you know, And he'd go right up there, you know, and they always quote the, you know, Washington there, you know, in his first battle, you know, and both of his eyes, he says, a wonderful sound, you know. Of course, it's often quoted." you know, it's it's, it's, it's all. A friend of ours was in the Korean War, and his commanding officer and he were in a hole getting shot at, and his commanding officer said, "Alvarez, yes, sir.

[32:52] Are you married? No, sir, I'm not. Well, I am, and I have three beautiful children. Stick your head up and see who's shooting at."

[33:06] Yeah, my uncle went to the First World War there. You know, under age, you know, he falsified his age to get in. You know, most people were trying to stay out. You know. My father is in the Second World War. Likewise, those who are what who have not suffered repulse, right? Nor have they experienced impediments in their attempts, right? they factually, easily they regard something as what possible for them, right?

[33:39] Now, whence youth, on account of their inexperience of impediments and defects. Easily regard something as what possible for them, right? And therefore, they are of good. But

[34:00] now, two of these things are found in the drunks: To it, kaliditas, heat, right? And multiplication of spirits, right? And the count of the wine, right? And also the inconsideration, lack of inconsideration, of the dangers and of their what defects, right? Okay.

[34:25] A lot of people get into car accidents. They're they drunk, aren't they? Okay. And for the same reason, also all omnes stulti, right? And those not using, right, deliberation, they tempt all things and are good. What? Hope. Now the first objection about the lack of firmness, right? It should be said that in the young and in the drunk, there is not a firmness in truth, right? secundum rem veritatem.

[35:08] But nevertheless, there is in them, according to their own what, estimate, right? Okay. Because they regard themselves as to firmly achieve that which they hope, right?

[35:22] Know thyself, right? It helps you know yourself. Okay. And likewise, it should be said to the second one, right? That the young and the drunk have infirmity according to truth, right? But according to their own what, estimate, they have power, right? Because they don't know their defects, right?

[35:52] And to the third, it should be said that not only experience but also inexperience is in some way the cause of what? hope. You can read sometime that pardon the rhetoric there where Aristotle talks about the old man and the young man and the man in prime of life, right? What characterizes these men, right?

[36:16] So I suppose you don't speak to these men the same same way, right? I was in California there. Nixon was running. Now there was some nut running around trying to record his speeches everywhere to see if he talked to the businessmen the same way he talked to the working men. A good rhetorician is going to talk in a different way, you know, to young people and old people and you know, people in the prime of life, huh?

[36:39] Because their customs and so on would be different, right? Okay. Now. What a marvelous thing right now. Now in five and six, huh? He was talking about the causes of hope, right?

[37:02] Now in article seven, what is he talking about? As a cause, it's effect. Yeah. So in five and six, was he looking before or after? Before. Yeah. Now he's looking after. He's looking for the cause of hope, right? And that's looking before, right? And now he's looking for the effect, right? I think you've read Shakespeare's *Hamlet*, yeah. Okay. This is a interesting thing because love is really the most basic of the emotions, huh?

[37:46] You can use a weaker word than love too. I mean, like, right? Huh? Okay. So if I like steak, then from time to time I want some steak, right? Huh? And I have joy when I get my steak or something. You know, it was a good steak. Okay. And

[38:05] so it's kind of strange. He said, "Well, hope is a cause of love, right? " But now go back to the text I was referring to from Augustine, there, right? Huh? He's talking quite about theological things, but hope in some way leads to what? Well, how can that be? Something. Let's see what Thomas says about these things. Huh? You unravel these things for we weak minds here.

[38:28] To the seventh, when we go forward, thus it seems that hope is not a cause of love. For as the great Augustine says in the fourteenth book of *The City of God*, the first of all the affections of the soul is love. Thomas has said that too, right? But hope is a certain affection of the soul, right?

[38:52] Love, therefore, precedes what? Hope. And therefore, hope. What's going on here? Thomas is going to take the opposite side. How can he do that?

[39:09] Moreover, desire precedes hope, but desire is caused from love. See. Because I love something, I like it. They desire it, right? But we already saw that desire is what before hope, right? Rest my case, right? He's just, just. He's really, he's really piling up the opposite side.

[39:38] Moreover, hope causes what? Delight. This has been said, right? Huh. But pleasure is not except about a good loved. Therefore, love precedes what? Hope.

[39:56] But against this, now the famous interpretation. But against this is what said Matthew one two, Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, right? The gloss says, faith begot hope, and hope begot charity, which is kind of love. This, this Augustine says, right? That's another famous text, though, right?

[40:19] I was reading Benedict XVI there, there, you know, things on the Gospels, there, right? And he just kind of puts his hands up about the difference in names in in Matthew and and Luke, yeah, yeah. This is straight up. But when Thomas goes through it, I mean, you know, the church fathers they got all these things in the names, right? So Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob.

[40:46] Gloss says that is hope. I mean, faith begot hope, and hope begot charity, which is love. Therefore, love is cause, but this guy's really looking before and after, it seems to me, huh? He's really, really, really following Shakespeare. Okay.

[41:11] I answer. It should be said that hope, what is able to regard two things, right? Huh? It regards as an object a good what? Hope for, right? But because the good hoped for is something difficult, right? That is what possible, right? Huh? Sometimes something becomes what?

[41:38] Possible to us. Excuse me. Yeah. Some something arduous becomes possible for us, not to us, but to others, right? Huh? Okay. So I hope to know the Pythagorean theorem with the help of my friend Euclid, right? I hope to know something about the Gospel Saint John through the exposition of the Gospel Saint John Thomas, right? So I hope. Okay. And therefore, hope also regards that to which something becomes what possible Possible for us, right?

[42:17] Huh? So, in so far, therefore, as hope regards the good what hoped for, hope is caused from what love, love, right? Huh? For there is no hope except about a good desired and loved, right? Huh? It's on the truth and the opposite side there, right? But in so far as hope regards the one to which something becomes possible for us, right? Thus, love is caused from hope and not the reverse.

[42:52] Huh? Now, what does how does this mean? Huh? For from this that through someone we what Hope hope for us some good can what be possible right we are moved towards him as towards what Our good. Yeah. yeah and thus we begin to love him right huh okay so I began to love Kasurik and De Koninck and Dionne right because I had what hope Hope to learn true.

[43:27] Yeah, yeah yeah and so they're my good there right huh I tell you there was that the party there you know and Monléon yeah he was he didn't know how to do a party you know and so I can see the man's kind of thing so so I walked up to Monléon and said can I ask you a question oh yes yes I started asking some philosophical questions oh the other students are kind of gathering around you know

[43:56] I see him as my good there you know it's my good Monléon you know okay um and thus we begin to what to love him right huh

[44:16] Yes. Okay from this that we love someone right huh We do not hope from him except pragidins insofar as we believe what Ourselves to be loved back by loves return from him right huh

[44:33] Once to be loved by someone makes us what Again to hope about him because we think if he loves us is gonna do good things for us right huh

[44:45] But the love of him is caused in the hope which we have of him right Okay And to this is a great response to all the objections. That's a very subtle, subtle thing, you know, huh?

[45:16] See, if if I if I love truth, right, and I desire truth, right, then that's more fundamental than my what, hoping to achieve truth, right? But then, um, I take my teacher Kasurik right now. Kasurik started out in philosophy in the states, and he was taught so poorly that he gave it up, right? Went into economics, I guess, for a while or something, you know. And then he what met De Koninck right?

[45:56] Or De Koninck right. And then, he thought, he might learn something from De Koninck, right. But he was very cautious, you know. He said, "You know, if you teach philosophy, the way it was taught to me in the States. he said I'll get up and walk out of class. " De Koninck says, "Fine, hope you will." And of course, he became very attached to De Koninck, you could tell it, right?

[46:20] then De Koninck would come down to his lecture tour. De Koninck had 12 children, so he needed to get a lot of extra money. But he'd come down on a lecture tour. You know, he'd stay at Kasurik's house and so on, right? And when he gave a lecture, you know, if the microphone wasn't working, you know, Kasurik could jump out of the stands and wrap the thing.

[46:35] You see that that respect for the master, right? Then, but which came first, his loving De Koninck, or his hope that he could get some philosophy, which he really wanted, you know, you know. But he'd despair of getting any philosophy on these guys down in the states, right? You know.

[47:01] So wouldn't the hope come before, you know. My brother Richard, with Kasurik there, you know, he he he was the best guy at the school there, you know. So he made an appointment for me to to meet with Kasurik for me and Warren to meet with Kasurik. And before I even went to college, I was you know the summer before I went to college, right? And he gave me some very fatherly advice, pursuing philosophy and so on, right?

[47:33] And so, so I got to college. I'd have an in with him, you know. And I'd go to his office and I'd ask him questions, and he'd answer them. You know, he said, "Why don't you go read this by Thomas? You know, go read this, you know." And I'd have more questions, and you know, so. So I was learning things from him. I had hope of getting right, and I started to, you know, love him like another father.

[47:58] You know, I think when he died, you know, years later, you know, it affected me more than my own natural father, right? You know. So I came to love him because I what? Yeah, I didn't have hope in him. I had hope of getting from him, right? And I used to say, you know, you know, a professor is just useful good. I said, you know, you know, but it says he is right.

[48:23] He's, I mean, if he's a good professor, he knows something, right? He's useful to get to get some knowledge out, right? You know, that's not really to love the man, is it, for his own sake, right? Say, and so if you hope to to get knowledge out of this man, and you start to get knowledge out of him, and you hope to get even more knowledge out of him, right, and so on, you know, but then you start to see this man as good for you, right?

[48:53] You know, and then you start to love him, right? So that's have a subtle thing there, right? You know, um, what did the the uh, um, uh, Saint Bernard of Clairvaux, his little piece on love? You know, he kind of distinguishes four stages of love, doesn't he?

[49:18] And the first one is where you love yourself, don't love God at all. Then you start to love something, but you have a difficulty getting it, and you say, "Oh, God can help me get there." And you start to love God for the for your own sake, right? And it's only later on, as you get to know Him, that you start to love Him for His own sake, right?

[49:41] And then, right? Well, isn't he saying the same thing that Thomas is saying here in the sense, isn't he? You know, I mean, I want to be happy, right?

[49:57] And then I realize I can't be happy without God. So I hope to get happiness, right, fulfillment of my mind, right, from God, right? So I keep returning to God to get help here, to get my happiness. And I realize he's he's not a bad guy, you know. He's a pretty good guy, you know, and there's reason to love him in addition to what he does for me, you know, and apart from what he does for me, right?

[50:30] You know, haven't I come to love him because of hope, right? You know the way it works, and isn't that what Bernard Clairvaux is saying? I think the first stage where you love yourself for your own sake, right, and then you know you don't love God at all, right, and then you begin to love God to help you out, right. And then you get to know God, and you begin to love Him for His own sake, right?

[50:57] So, love in the strict sense, where you love someone for their own sake. Comes from hope, right? In that way, huh? Mhm. Tiny little more. ex- explicitly than Thomas, you know. You turn to him, then you start to see him, you know, as as good for you, right? You realize he's not just good for you, but he's he's good, period.

[51:30] But that's what what the the the the gloss is saying there in that explanation of spiritual sense, there, right? Of Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, right? But Augustine says the same thing, and I think quoted, you know, the magnificent premium is called right in the Latin premium to Dei Verbum, right? The constitution on divine revelation, right? Yeah, but called Dei Verbum in the Latin. And

[52:00] interesting, right? First, you got the teacher as useful good. As I, how crass I was, you know. You know, but he's useful good, right?

[52:12] That's not really charity because charity is a love of friendship, right? But nevertheless, you can say that the hope that you have presupposes that you loved and wanted truth, right? And then you say, "Well, I can't figure this out myself, and therefore hey, this guy can help me get what I can't get by myself, right? " I mean, I suppose I could figure out a few geometrical theorems by myself, but not very, not very far, you know.

[52:50] I can even go places with this Euclid, you know. He needs something, you know. That's for all thirteen books. Yeah, yeah, he needs something, you know. And so the hope, you know, and then finally you come to to love the man for His own sake, right?

[53:14] You know, it's like when Thomas asked, "You know, could something be the cause of love? " Right? Some other passion, right? But but presuppose some other love, right? Right. I have to love truth and want it before I would regard Kasurik as a useful good. You know, By other professors, I said I'm not being really useful. Good, Stephen, you know, I couldn't learn anything. I learned some errors or something from them, but I know, but we're not really learn something.

[53:43] I'm like this guy, you know. Kasurik said when I went to graduate school, he said, "you're gonna have professors that are gonna waste your time too, you know. You know, but if you have one or two professors, you know, but of all you had, you know, Kasurik, I mean, you had De Koninck and Dionne and Boulay, you know, at least those two, you know, were something. you know?

[54:08] So I was very lucky, you know. So do you love God? as, as useful and necessary for your happiness before you love him for his own sake? Probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[54:31] So you don't want to go to hell, right? So I hope you know, in God, right, to escape my just punishment. to get something you don't deserve. You, yeah.

[54:50] Now all the things I'll know if I see God face to face, you know, that without discourse I'll know it all at once, you know.

[55:01] Yeah. Keep on reading the Summa Contra Gentiles you know I go from chapter to chapter, thinking about something different all the time, you know, and I see it all at once, you know. I see that, you know. As I was saying, you know, I was making a comparison to Romeo and Juliet, right? You know that Romeo is in love with what Rosalind is that such a name?

[55:26] Once he sees Juliet, he just forgets all about Rosalind, right? Once you see God face to face, you're going to forget about Juliet too, and and everything else, right? You know. I mean, Saint Thomas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mozart, if you remember, a priest said that on the last day when Christ comes in glory, we're not going to pull out the Summa and start reading about the power of sin.

[55:51] Yeah. But but but Thomas says there will be vocal music in heaven, right? There will be Mozart will still be active there, right? We can hope. Oh, I'm sure he's here. Yeah, you

[56:08] have all the nice things that Benedict and uh, Mm-hmm. John Paul II said about the great premonition. Get time for one more here, and I have to stop here. Okay. or do we have to stop here I think we better stop Okay. Now I'm going away. We're going.