Prima Secundae
163. Summa I-II Q.68 aa.4–7: How the Seven Gifts Are Distinguished, Their Connection in Charity, Whether They Remain in Heaven, and Their Order of Dignity
Class of 2014-03-20
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[0:00] Answer. It should be said as has been said. The gifts are certain habits, right? Perfecting man to this that he promptly follows the what

[0:18] instinct of the Holy Spirit, just as the moral virtues perfect the desiring powers to what obey reason. Okay. It comes back to that same what Likeness of ratios, right? Okay.

[0:37] Remember that one I was talking about last time that kind of struck me, you know, where Thomas is pointing out how the divine omnipotence, right, the divine power, is both

[0:59] able to what generate the Son, who is God, right, and to create what creatures, right, and you know one of the great mistakes of Avicenna, right, is that he thinks that the creatures proceed by God from God per modum naturae, right? So God produces just one creature, you might say, and then you have to get you know that creature more creatures and so on, right? So he has a couple mistakes there, right?

[1:32] He doesn't see that. They proceed from the divine what power through what his will right. While in the case of the Holy Spirit, he what I mean, in the Son of God rather, he proceeds from the power what, not through the will but through what. Nature, yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course, this is this is really really something to important to see. And Thomas says, for the same power can be moved by different things, right?

[2:12] And he takes example of our what, our reason, right? Our reason is moved by nature to assent to the statement that the whole is more than the part, right?

[2:26] The quantities equal to the same, equal to each other, and so on, right? But it's moved by the will to what? To believe something. To believe, yeah. No one believes unless he wills, right? So the same power, of reason, is moved by nature, to one thing, and by the will to nothing, right?

[2:51] He's making that comparison, right? So in likeness, the divine power, right, is moved by nature, right, in this generation of the Son of God, and later on the Holy Spirit is nature too, but is moved what to produce us, right, as creatures through His what will, right? Very subtle, right?

[3:22] Well, here he's coming back to this twofold what likeness, right? It's kind of beautiful, you know, when when Aristotle talks about metaphor there in the book on the Poetic Art. What is the greatest kind of metaphor?

[3:44] What is the most beautiful of all metaphors? What's the one that's based on likeness or ratios? huh? I used to take the example in class. I said, now suppose you have just one daughter, and that she's a beautiful girl, right? Your only daughter, your only child, right? And today is the wedding day, right?

[4:07] And she used to she used to go oversleeping, you know, and no girl oversleeps on a wedding day, right? You know, they wake up at five or four in the morning, three in the morning, you know. Oh, they think, you know, is my dress perfect? You know, and what can they do to just and it's kind of amusing, you know, huh? It's kind of beautiful. Shakespeare doesn't, right?

[4:27] And the kind of news that Juliet seems to be over sleeping, right? And then they discover she's what dead, apparently, because she's a thing. And there's all kinds of moaning and so on, but you have finally the great words of the you know of the father, you know, death lies on her like an untimely frost upon the sweetest flower of all the field. I said, now who could say it better than that?

[4:50] I challenge anybody to produce from any poet anywhere, right? You know, that's a beautiful metaphor, right? But what is it? It's based on a likeness of what ratios? Death is to Juliet like an untimely frost to the sweetest flower of the field, right? Isn't beautiful, you know?

[5:12] And then when you get into the you know stronger and closer likenesses, right? You have in the fourth tool of dialectic, right? Aristotle says that the fourth tool of dialectic, the tool of likeness, is useful for

[5:30] definitions. You see the likeness among things. You can bring out what way they are like, and therefore define them. You know. And then you can, you know, try to find a glass and you know, compare these and you see what they look like. It's useful for what inductions, right? You have to see likeness to induce, and then for syllogisms, ex hypothesi, right? Okay, what I call if then syllogisms, right?

[6:01] Okay, so Aristotle often argues from what one ratio to what another ratio, by certain likeness between the two, right? Okay. But you can say also this is useful for what, you know, kind of like example in a sense, or to manifest something by by likeness, huh? And Thomas comes back to using the same what likeness of ratios, right? That the the

[6:33] gifts are habits perfecting man to this that he promptly follow the instinct of the Holy Spirit, just as the moral virtues perfect what the desiring powers to what, Reason. yeah, to promptly follow reason to obey reason, right, huh? Okay. So someone who has the moral virtues, right, he is he'll go quickly follow reason, right, and you know, you haven't acquired the moral virtues, you might be tempted to not follow reason, right?

[7:02] He's the way most people are, right, huh? That's a beautiful thing there, right, then. And he says, secret, just as the desiring powers are by nature apt to be moved by the command of what, Reason. reason, huh? So all the powers that are human, right, are by nature apt to be moved by the instinct of God as by a certain what higher power. Well, reason is what higher than the what?

[7:39] Desiring powers. Than desiring powers, right? And they are naturally apt to what follow reason, right, huh? But they don't follow reason promptly unless they're perfected by the moral virtues, huh? Okay. And so likewise, all the powers of man are moved by this higher power of the what Holy Spirit, right, by the instinct of God.

[8:05] And therefore, in all the powers of man, which but notice he's going to qualify them, accept which are able to be beginnings of human acts, right? As are the what virtues, so also there are what gifts, and that's in reason and in the what desiring power, but not in the what the digestive power and so on, right? Okay, for instance, parts, huh?

[8:36] Now, here it gets very subtle. Reason, however, is speculative, practical, looking and doing, as I'd say in English. And in both, there is considered the grasping of truth, which pertains to discovery and the judgment about the what truth.

[9:04] That's interesting. Thomas sometimes said that knowledge involves those two things, right? In order to learn for you, I have to grasp what you are saying, and I have to be able to judge whether it's true or what false. Judgment is separating the true from the false by some beginning in our knowledge, right? That's we often say. You know, that makes sense. You know, expressing our judgment, right?

[9:36] But the senses are is the beginning of our knowledge, right? Okay. And what in geometry, right? You go back to the beginnings of the thing, the definitions. Huh?

[9:49] Can a acute angle be called an obtuse angle? See, see, no, they can't be, and you what? Separate the true, they can't be, from the false, they can be. But by some beginning in our knowledge, which would be the definition of acute angle and the definition of obtuse angle, right? That's what judgment means, huh? It means separating true from the false by some what? But you have to grasp what you are talking about, right?

[10:23] Before you can do that, right? Okay. He says this is true both for looking reason and doing reason, right? Speculative means the Latin word for looking, right? Theoretic was the Greek word, but English word is looking. That's why Shakespeare's the word looking.

[10:48] Now, for the grasping of the truth, reason, speculative reason or looking reason, is perfected by understanding. The practical by what counsel? Okay. I remember what Mark was saying. Remember, Sias could think of all kinds of things to do, but he had no judgment as to what to do. He he he he thought of all kinds of things to do, and my brother said, "This is the one to do."

[11:20] So my brother had the judgment. Yeah. But you're both imperfect, right? You don't have both, right? I noticed the use of the word intellectum there to name that, right? Huh? Because the word understanding is equivocal, and you could sometimes use understanding for one kind of knowledge, right? And so sometimes we divide knowledge into or knowing into understanding and sensing, right? And then understanding means what? A form of knowing, right?

[12:01] Other times understanding means simply what? To grasp what you're saying or thinking, right? Okay, but not separating it, you know, can grasp what's true and what's false, right? But not being able to separate them, right? So use understanding sometimes in that way, right? So when I, you know,

[12:28] translate Aristotle's word episteme, right, it means coming to a halt or a stop, right? Refers to an understanding that comes after the movement. of reason, huh? So I translate this as a reasoned out what understanding, right? Huh? But sometimes I change and call it a reasoned out knowledge because understanding might be something less than knowledge in the other sense, right? So it's kind of equivalent that way, right?

[12:58] Huh? So you have natural understanding and then reasoned out understanding, right? But natural understanding, which Aristotle just calls nous understanding, that that has a sense of what judgment too, though, even more so than the reasoned out understanding, because reasoned out understanding depends upon natural understanding for its judgment.

[13:25] So as regard apprehension of truth, looking reason is perfected by understanding, practical by counsel, right? But to rightly judging the speculative or looking is perfected by what wisdom, the practical by what? No. Yeah. Now again, you got to be careful because knowledge can have many senses, right? But sometimes we divide knowledge against wisdom, huh? Because wisdom gets a special name because it excels, right? Well, looking knowledge is better than doing knowledge, right?

[14:01] So it gets a name, wisdom. Okay. So that takes care of four of the the gifts, right? Huh? Okay. Now the desiring power in those things which are towards another is perfected by what piety, right? Of course, justice is also towards what another, right? Aristotle says you can't strictly speaking be just to yourself, right? Huh? Okay. Well, sometimes he said I owe it to myself. I owe this this occasion or something, you know.

[14:38] I owe it to myself. Punish you. I owe punishment to myself, but but strictly speaking, justice is towards another, right? Huh? Okay. Just like we say sometimes you're your worst enemy, right? You know, be a friend to yourself, right? But strictly speaking, you're not a friend to yourself; you're a friend to somebody else, right? But sometimes we. So the desiring power, huh? In those things which are towards another, is perfected by piety, huh?

[15:12] Now later on he's going to say why he's saying piety rather than justice, right? But piety is seems to be particularly in those things which are towards oneself, right? One is perfected by fortitude against the fear of what dangers, huh? And against the desired, disordered desire of things delightful by fear, according to that of Proverbs fifteen. Through fear of the Lord, one what? Everyone declines from evil, right?

[15:49] Huh? And in Psalm one eighteen, constrict your with fear your what? Flesh, right? Huh? Fear from your judges, right? And thus these gifts extend to all those things to which extend both the intellectual virtues, the first four, right? And what the moral virtues extend to, right?

[16:19] Huh? Now, why don't you have something corresponding to art? Okay, that was the first thing, right? This is one of the objections against the first four, right? Huh? Why did you have prudence and

[16:36] perspective? To first, it should be said that the gifts of the Holy Spirit perfect man in those things which pertain to living well, right? To which art is not ordered,

[16:52] but it's ordered to exterior things to be made, right? For art is right reason, not about things to be done, but things to be what made, as is said in the sixth book of the what ethics, huh?

[17:14] It can however be said as regards the what pouring into the gifts, the art pertains to the Holy Spirit, right? Who is the chief one moving, not to men, who are as certain what tools of his, huh? When they are moved by him, right? So we got the word organa, we got the Greek word in there as well as the instrumentum, right?

[17:40] To temperance corresponds in some way the gift of what fear. Just as to the what virtue temperance pertains that according to one's own reason, someone what recedes from depraved pleasures, right? On account of the good of what reason, right? Huh? So also to the gift of fear it pertains that someone recedes from pleasures depraved ones on account of the what fear of God, huh?

[18:32] So he's referring to two things in that objection. One was that art is is is not nothing corresponding to it, and Thomas explains what the reason why there's nothing corresponding to art, right? And then the other objection was that what. There's nothing corresponding to temperance. Well, there is. The way the fear of the Lord corresponds to what temperance.

[19:04] Okay. What are the integral parts of temperance? Do you remember? Integral parts of temperance. Yeah. Skip that question. Skip that question. That was interesting. Isn't it something simple like restraint, no, fear of justice, temperance, integral part. We'll do that too for your homework. Everyone was a part of prudence, but they're all parts of temperance. Oh yeah. Let's cast some light upon the connection there with this fear of the Lord, right?

[19:50] Okay. Now the second objection, right? Why, why piety rather than justice, right? Okay. To the second, it should be said that the name of justice is what placed upon things from the rightness of what reason, right? And therefore, the name of virtue is more what is more suitably a name of virtue than a name of a what gift. But the name of piety implies a reverence, huh?

[20:37] Which we have to father or to one's fatherland, huh? And because the father of all is God, huh? Also, the worship of God is called what piety, right? Okay.

[20:58] Now, in Socrates, there in the dialogue called Protagoras, you know, he has the the four cardinal virtues, but then he adds piety to them, right? And you have this discussion of piety in the Euthyphro too.

[21:15] Interesting. And therefore, suitably, the gift by which someone does what has reverence towards God, right? Or on account of the reverence he has for God, he does good to all. Is named what piety, huh? What's what's one of the epistles, isn't it? There, this is piety. You know, take care of widows and orphans and so on. And you gotta say, well, it's kind of strange. Because they're not your father, right?

[21:55] But it's because of your your order to God, right, that you take care of the widow and the orphan. And therefore, suitably, the gift by which someone, an account of reverence for God, does good to all, is called what? Piety, right? So that's interesting. That's a contrast. I know. When Dr. Hansen talks about the gift of piety, he says because some people do good works out of you know kind of compassion for others, and he says the difference, the way he explains it, because every human being is the image of God.

[22:31] Yeah. But we only know that because of our faith. So he says, just human mercy or compassion is to see the need. Yeah. In what is the image, whereas piety sees the image in the need. Yeah. My teacher De Koninck, they had a famous text there on uh, famous work on the La piété de fils right? huh? Talking about the piety of the Son of God towards his mother, right?

[22:55] Huh? Filial piety, they call it. To the third, it should be said. Okay, the third question is about now. Why aren't there some corresponding to the what theological virtues? Huh?

[23:29] To the third, it should be said that the soul of man is not moved by the Holy Spirit except he be united in some way, right? To him, just as a tool is not moved by the artist except by some kind of contact or some other what union, huh? But the first union of man is through faith, hope, and what charity. Charity. Now this is what very interesting what he says here.

[24:01] Whence these virtues are presupposed to what the gifts? That's very interesting what he says, huh? As the roots, certain roots of the gifts, right? That's very interesting what he says, huh?

[24:20] Whence all the gifts pertain to these three virtues, huh? As certain derivations of the aforesaid virtues. There he almost seems to be putting the gifts. I mean the theological virtues above the gifts, right? Or you could say below. Yeah, yeah. well I mean you say root, yeah, this is derivations, you know. The way it goes on there, there are certain things derived from the aforesaid virtues, right?

[24:45] Yeah. they're all ordered to perfecting those acts of the theological virtues I imagine That's what they speak of it in terms of grace. The way again my experience of Saint Bonaventure, he speaks of the the grace ramifying, it branches out to the virtues, the gifts, and then the beatitudes Yeah. It's all from one root. You know the scripture says charity is diffused in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, right?

[25:19] Huh. So he has that connection with us too, obviously, right? And there's a connection there, right, between that and and it's being moving us by the gifts.

[25:34] So we got beyond a little bit beyond the Baltimore Catechism, right? I was saying to one of my wife's friends, you know, I said, "So there's nothing wrong with Baltimore Catechism. The answers are quite, quite good." I said, "We didn't understand them very well, but I mean, they're still quite good. The answers, I mean, they're good." Yeah, yeah, and they even had the answers, you know, and then they'd always try to read these things.

[25:56] Oh, yeah, you kind of remember that you'd kind of memorize it as a kid or something, you know, and rattled them off, you know, in front of Sister, so and so. Sometimes the parish priest would come over, you know, and sit in on one of the classes, you know, and if we didn't answer, you know, the question, he just writes and says, "Oh, I was so embarrassed."

[26:15] I mean, he felt embarrassed if we couldn't answer them. And then for some reason they stopped that, you know they didn't even, you know. Yeah, I was helping instruct a group of teenagers who hadn't been confirmed with their classmates Yeah. but they were leaders, and it was just a small group. And I asked them to name, and these are kids who were juniors and seniors in high school.

[26:40] What are the sacraments, and can you name the sacraments? They couldn't even name confirmation. They didn't even know one sacrament, and they were going to get confirmed. You're giving them confirmation. Yeah, they're going to be confirmed. Yeah, I remember this one of my our friends in the parish who was involved in what they call review of the faith. right? It wasn't a review? It was a first view.

[27:03] And he asked the class, you know, to name the seven sacraments, and he says collectively they couldn't come up with the name of the seven sacraments. Plus, they had things like graduation. He kind of stereotypes the sacraments, you know, bar mitzvah. Yeah, natural sacraments. Boy Scout, Eagle Scout. Yeah, okay. The

[27:32] kids don't memorize it, and they're that's the age they should do some memorizing, especially, you know. Yeah. I just got a copy of Bellarmine's Catechism. Huh? It's very good. Get to the fourth one now, yeah.

[28:00] Just as God is feared, so He's also loved, right? huh? Someone hopes and so on. Therefore, just as fear is laid down to be a gift, so also the other three ought to be. Huh? To the fourth, it should be said that love and hope and pleasure have the good for their object, but the highest good is God. Whence the names of these passions, huh, are carried over, huh?

[28:28] Transferred means what? Carried over, huh? To the theological virtues by which the soul was joined to what? God, huh? But the object of fear is the bad, which in no way belongs to God, right? Hence, it does not imply a joining to God, but more a withdrawal from those things, from some things, on account of the reverence that we have for God, huh? And therefore, it is not the name of a theological virtue, but is of a gift, huh?

[29:10] Which, in a more eminent way, huh, withdraws us from evils even than a moral virtue does, huh? Okay. Now, what about the fifth objection here?

[29:32] What directs this fear, right? To the fifth, then it should be said that through wisdom is directed both the understanding of man and affections of man, and therefore there are laid down two things corresponding to wisdom, as it were, the director. On the part of the understanding, the gift of what understanding, and on the part of the affections, the gift of fear. It's kind of marvelous, right?

[30:04] It's the joke about we say, Monsignor Dionne his principal passion is fear, right? But you have this kind of in Socrates too, right? That fear of being what mistaken, right? That fear of thinking you know something when you don't don't know it, right?

[30:30] Now he says the reason for fearing God is especially taken from a consideration of the divine excellence, which wisdom what considers. That's very interesting, right, huh?

[30:46] I think my principal passion is despair. I despair of knowing anything. Take a little break now, here. To the fifth, then, one goes forward. Thus, it seems that the gifts are not connected.

[31:14] For the apostle says in the first epistle to the Corinthians, chapter twelve, to others are given through the spirit the sermo, the speech of wisdom, right? To others, the speech of what? Science, according to the same spirit. But wisdom and scientia are counted among the gifts of the what? Holy Spirit.

[31:42] Therefore, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are given to what diverse people and not connected among each other in the same. Is that simply equivocation? The most common fallacy. You're talking about these gifts of the gratia gratis data. Moreover, Augustine says in the fourteenth book on the Trinity that what many of the faithful do not what

[32:18] shine in in with knowledge, although they shine by the faith itself. But to the gift of faith, right? I mean, to the virtue of faith, there follows something of the what gifts? At least the gift of what fear. Therefore, it seems that the gifts are not what are necessarily connected one with the other, right? So they could have the fear without having the the scientia, right?

[32:50] Moreover, Gregory says in the first book of the Moralia that wisdom is less if it lacks what understanding. And wisdom, understanding is valde in utile, so very useless.

[33:09] it does not subsist from wisdom. From wisdom. Vile is the counsel to whose work for the work of fortitude is lacking, and great is the what fortitude destroyed unless it be borne up or supported by the counsel. Nothing is science if it does not have the usefulness of piety, and much useless is piety if it lacks the discretion of science.

[33:41] Fear also, if it does not have the virtues, rises to what no genus to no work of what good action. In which it seems that one gift can be had with another. Therefore, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not connected.

[34:03] Against this is what Gregory there sets forth, saying that in that banquet of the sons, we're not to what, scrutinize, right? That they what feed each other mutually, huh? Through the sons of Jacob, about which he speaks there, right? I designated the gifts of the Holy Spirit. That's what the whole text of, or hidden that curse. Therefore, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are connected to this that they what refresh each other, right?

[34:37] The answer should be said that the truth of this question can be had easily from the things fore said, right? For it is said above that just as the appetitive powers are disposed through the moral virtues in comparison to the rule of reason. Now, unless he's coming back, right, to that likeness again, huh?

[35:06] The man who can see a likeness of ratios, huh? So also all the what powers of the soul are disposed by the what gifts in comparison to the Holy Spirit moving them. But the Holy Spirit dwells in us. through charity, That's the same, the connection between those two. According to that of Romans five five, that the charity of God is diffused in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us, just as our own reason is perfected by prudence or foresight.

[35:46] Whence, just as the moral virtues are connected to each other in prudence, so the gifts of the Holy Spirit are connected together to each other in charity.

[36:02] Thus, that the one who has charity has all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, of which none can be had but without charity. Right, solves it, huh? Yeah, the link to the virtues. But it's interesting how he's going to solve his objection to all that stuff.

[36:35] He sees a distinction there in the words, huh? To the first, therefore, it should be said that wisdom and science, in one way, can be considered according as they are gratia gratis data, right? That's opposed to gratia gratum facientem, right?

[36:58] Insofar as someone abounds so much in the knowledge of divine things and human things, that he is able to instruct the faithful and to refute adversaries, well, that's what Thomas has, right?

[37:14] We get rid of him. We get rid of the church, as some of the heretics said. Well, the Pope said a vain boast, he says, but not a vain testimony. That's good.

[37:33] And this speaks there the apostle about what wisdom and science in that sense. When significantly he makes mention of the sermone sapientiae scientiae, right? In other way, they can be taken insofar as their gifts of the Holy Spirit.

[37:56] And thus, wisdom and science are nothing other than certain perfections of the human mind, by which it is disposed to following right the instinct of the Holy Spirit in a knowledge of divine or what human things. Human things. And thus it is clear that gifts of this sort are in all those having what charity.

[38:28] The second is going to solve that in some of the same way, right? Because it has a text there which said many of the faithful do not excel in science, although they excel in faith, right? Augustine, Saint, important. To second should be said, Augustine there speaks of science, expounding the foretold authority of the apostle. Whence he speaks about science in the foretold way, according to the gratia gratis what data, right?

[39:01] I explained before, you know that that means gratia gratis data, right? Now, but Thomas somebody's divides that and gets the treatise on grace against gratia gratu, making one accepta acceptable to God, right? Well, even that is gratis data, but this keeps the common notion, right? Huh? And the other one has something in in addition most noteworthy, right? It gets the new name, right? So it's not be one name, but the whole phrase, right?

[39:43] Which is clear from this that he he subjoins that another right knows only what a man ought to believe on account of obtaining human or blessed life, right? Which is not acceptable. eternally, but the other is to know in what way this and what can be bestowed upon the pious and defend against the impious, which by proper word is called science. So it's equivocation of words in these cases, right?

[40:18] The most common mistake in thinking is Aristotle says in the book on Sophistical Refutations. Now, to the third, it should be said that just as in one way the connection of the cardinal virtues is proven through this, that one of them is perfected in a certain way by another, right? So Gregory, in the same way, wishes to show or prove, rather, the connection of the gifts, right?

[40:51] Through this, that one of them without the other is not able to be perfect, right? Whence he sets forth before saying, what? One each one, I guess individually. Yeah. One is destitute of, right? If one does not what, I guess assists the other. Yeah, yeah. Human suffering, yeah. That's a hit

[41:22] there. We've all experienced that. Therefore, not one gift is said to be understood without the other, but that understanding if it be without wisdom is not a gift, right? Just as temperance, if it be without justice, is not a virtue, right? I suppose you can say, you know, you can show the union through charity, all of them together, but then also the fact that one helps to confirm the what, the other, right?

[41:56] I'm still always saying, you know, you can tell a guy's, unorthodoxy by his attitude towards Blessed Virgin. You know, there's something wrong with this guy, right? He Doesn't have piety towards the Blessed Virgin, you know, and then I wouldn't trust his theological judgment.

[42:17] I remember there was someone who told the story about was it before the the definition of the assumption it was one of those mysteries of Mary. This guy was saying, you know, I don't know if I can stay in, you know, if if they define that, and that guy says, "Don't worry, since you're already out."

[42:43] It's already done. It's a done deal. You're cooked. So we get time for another article. Whether The gifts of the Holy Spirit remain in the fatherland, right?

[43:09] To the sixth, one proceeds thus: It seems that the gifts of the Holy Spirit do not remain in the fatherland. For Gregory says in the second book of the Moralia that the Holy Spirit right instructs the what mind right against singular what temptations by the seven gifts, huh? But in fatherland there are no temptations. temptations, I guess, huh? According to that of Isaiah eleven nine, they do not harm, do not kill in the what universal holy mountain, huh?

[43:49] Therefore, the gifts of the Holy Spirit will not be in the patria, right? But the gifts may do other things besides just yeah, yeah. Moreover, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are certain habits, as has been said, huh? But frusta in vain, huh? Are habits where their acts cannot be. But the acts of some of these gifts are not able to be in the fatherland, as for Gregory says in the first of the Moralia, that the understanding makes things heard to be penetrated, right?

[44:26] And console prevents one from being precipitous, huh? And fortitude makes one not what fear, I guess, adverse things. And piety fills the viscera of the heart with the works of mercy, huh? But these don't belong to the state of the holy of the fatherland. Therefore, these gifts are not in the state of glory, huh?

[44:53] I suppose Thomas will be saying that there are some acts of the gifts that are not going to be prominent there, right? But this is the whole story.

[45:07] Moreover, the gifts some perfect man in the contemplative life as wisdom and understanding, some in the active life as piety and fortitude. But the active life at this life is terminated. I told you to say that just to say. Well, then you got to get the active life in in this life. Going out in next life. As Gregory says in the sixth Moralia. Therefore, in the state of glory, there are not to be all the gifts of the what Holy Spirit.

[45:41] Okay, but against this is what Ambrose says in his book on the what Holy Spirit, huh? That city of God, right, huh? The heavenly Jerusalem, right. Is not washed by the what movement? Yeah, some terrestrial river, but proceeding from the font of life, the Holy Spirit, by whose what brief taste we are satisfied, right? In whose what celestial spirits seem to overflow, filled with the what seven spiritual virtues, right?

[46:25] Fervently. Answer should be said that about the gifts we can speak in two ways. In one way, it regards the essence of the gifts, and thus they will be most perfectly in the fatherland, as is clear through the authority of Ambrose, what induced.

[46:52] Yeah, based himself on the text which is quoted there. The reason for which is that the gifts of the Holy Spirit perfect the human mind and mentem involves the will as well as the reason, right? To following the motion of the Holy Spirit, which will be most of all in the fatherland, right? When God will be all in all, yeah. So I mean, obviously, be prompt a thought on there, right?

[47:23] As is said in the first, Epistle to the Corinthians, chapter fifteen, and when man will be wholly what subject to God, right? But in another way, they can be considered as regards the matter about which they act, right? And thus, in the present, they have some what operation about some matter about which they will not have an operation in the state of glory, right? And according to this, they will not remain in the fatherland, just as has been said above about the what cardinal virtues.

[48:00] The first, therefore, it should be said that Gregory is speaking about the gifts according as they belong to the present what state. State, yeah. Um.

[48:12] Thus, huh? We are what protected by the gifts against what the temptations of evil things, but in the state of glory, the evil is ceasing, through the gifts of the Holy Spirit will be perfected in the what good.

[48:36] To the second, should be said that Gregory, as it were, in each of the gifts, huh, lays down something that passes away with the present state, right, and something that remains even in the what future, huh? For he said that wisdom refreshes the mind with what the hope of eternal things and the certitude of them, of which two things what hope passes away, but the certitude remains.

[49:12] So if you have the beating vision, you'll be certain that it's going to remain forever. And about the understanding, he says that it penetrates in that which is heard, right? Refreshing the heart and enlightening its what darkness, right?

[49:34] Of which hearing won't pass away, because man will not teach his what his brother, right? As is said in Jeremiah thirty-one, but the illustration of the mind will what remain. huh About counsel, he says that it prevents one from being precipitous, which is very necessary in the present, right? And again, that by reason it what fills the soul, which will be necessary even in the what future.

[50:07] About f fortitude, that it does not what Fear adverse things. Yeah, which is necessary in the present, and again that what. Places the food of confidence it sets out. the food of confidence. Yeah. Which will remain also in the future.

[50:28] About science, he lays down one thing, to wit, that it what overcomes the fast of the... Fasting of ignorance. Yeah. which pertains to the present state. Yeah. But that what it adds in the what stomach of the mind can be understood figuratively the filling of it to a thought Knowledge, right? huh? We'll be stuffed with knowledge, right? Which pertains to the future state. About piety, that the what viscera of the heart, of the works of mercy.

[51:08] yeah, which according to words pertains only to the present state, but that what intimate affection for one's neighbors, right, Designated to, what Viscera, Viscera. Retains also to the future state, huh? Which piety will not exhibit the works of mercy, but the affection of congratulation. Congratulations. A job well done. Congratulations.

[51:47] A job well done. About fear, he says that it what guards the mind lest it be proud about present things, right? Which pertains to the present status. And it it what strengthens us about future things with the food of hope, which also pertains the present state, right? As regards hope, but also the future state. It pertains that what Strengthening of things, hoped for Here hoped and there they're attaining, right?

[52:21] And the third, that argument proceeds about the gifts as regards their what matter, for the works of the active life will not be what the matter of the gifts in heaven, I guess, but all will have their acts about those things which pertain to contemplative life, which is the vita vita stop now or we should go on? Mm

[52:57] Do another one Okay Whether the worth or the dignity, huh? Is worth the English word for dignity? I think. Dignitas. What's the English word for dignitas? Worth or worthiness? With the worth of the gifts, is attended according to the enumeration, Isaiah 11?

[53:24] To the seventh one goes forward thus. It seems that the dignity of the gifts is not to be observed according to the enumeration by which they enumerated in Isaiah 11, right?

[53:41] For that would seem to be most potent in the gifts, which most of all, right, God requires of man. But most of all, God requires of man fear. For he said in Deuteronomy chapter 10, and now Israel, what does the Lord your God ask of you? Except that you fear the Lord your God, huh? That's pretty clever text. That's that's a pretty good. And Malachi 1 says, "If I am the Lord, where is my fear?"

[54:14] Right. Therefore, it seems that fear, which is enumerated last, is not the least of the gifts, but it's the greatest. What what objection? In in the De Potentia you know, he's got sometimes 32, 34 objections, you know. He said, "Potentia, you know, he'd be powerful. but he's wearing the man out, you know? 20, 30, 40 objections.

[54:51] Okay. Moreover, piety seems to be a certain what universal good, huh? For the apostle says in the first epistle to Timothy that piety is useful at omnia for all things, right? But the universal good is referred to particular goods, huh? Common good to the private good, huh? Therefore, piety, which is what penultima means next to the last, I guess, huh? Is enumerated would seem to be the most potent of the gifts, huh?

[55:24] Moreover, science perfects the judgment of man, but counsel pertains to what inquiry, huh? But judgment is preeminent to what inquiry, right? Therefore, science is a greater gift than counsel. However, it is named that. I'm really getting confused now. I'm really getting tied up here. This guy ties you up all the time. We have an

[56:08] informer if he didn't untie me. More of fortitude pertains to the desiring power, scientia to reason. But reason is more what eminent than the desiring power. Therefore, also science is more eminent a gift than fortitude, which nevertheless is first enumerated. Therefore, the worth of the gifts is not to be observed according to the order of enumeration of them.

[56:44] Now, but against this is what Augustine. We'll see that he should be brought in here. He's somebody. John Paul II has a, you know, singling out Augustine to kind of show you the authority of Augustine and how important he is in the life of the church. You can see that in the catechism, right? You know, Augustine is quoted.

[57:11] He's quoted ad nauseam He's quoted ad gloriam Augustini for the glory of Augustine. It seems to me that the sevenfold operation of the Holy Spirit, about which Isaiah speaks, is congruent with these what grades and what sentences about which there is mention in Matthew five chapter. Matthew five, first, and of the order, right? Huh? For there, to wit, and Isaiah is quoting Augustine again. The enumeration is what it begins of ex more excellent.

[57:54] Here, vero from the inferior. That's what you were saying. Yeah, I think the Matthew five three is the beatitudes, and he's starting with the lowest, going to the highest, where he says the gifts are named from the highest to the lowest. Yeah.

[58:14] Well, let's see what the master says here now. Answer should be said that the dignity or worth of the gifts can be observed in two ways, right?

[58:29] In one way, simply, to wit, by comparison to their own acts, in so far as they proceed from their what principles. In another way, secundum quid, to wit, by comparison to their what matter.

[58:50] Curious distinction. Simply speaking, simply about the dignity of the gifts, right? They're the same reason of comparison in them and in the what virtues, huh? Because the gifts, huh, perfect man for all the acts of the powers and soul, to which the what virtues, virtues perfect, right? Whence, just as the intellectual virtues are preferred to the what moral virtues, huh? And in those what intellectual virtues, the contemplative are preferred to the active, right?

[59:36] As wisdom and understanding, right, huh? And science, what? Prudence and art. So also, right? Wisdom is preferred to understanding, and understanding to what science, huh? Just as prudence and what cynicism and eugulia, right? Tact eugulia is counsel, right? And cynicism is judgment, right? And prudence is command, too. So also in the gifts, wisdom and understanding, science and counsel. Those four correspond to the understanding or reason, right?

[1:00:20] They are preferred to piety and fortitude and fear, right? In which piety is preferred to fortitude, and fortitude to fear. Just as justice to fortitude, and fortitude to what temperance, huh?

[1:00:42] So Mozart in last five symphonies, right? The the fortieth and the thirty eighth represent what fortitude, right, huh? The forty first and thirty six magnanimity, right? Thirty ninth glories

[1:01:05] rejoicing, right? Okay. So Thomas puts justice and fortitude above what temperance, right? But as regards matter, right? Fortitude and counsel are preferred to science and piety, because fortitude and counsel have place in what difficult difficult things, huh?

[1:01:51] Thus, therefore, the dignity of the gifts corresponds to the order of enumeration partly to it simpliciter. According as wisdom and understanding are preferred to what all, partly though according to the order of matter, according as counsel and fortitude are preferred to science and what piety.

[1:02:21] It takes a while to absorb that, I think. To the first, therefore, it should be said that fear, most of all, is required as as were a what beginning, right, of the perfection of the gifts, huh? Because the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the what Lord, right? Huh?

[1:02:52] So the philosopher has to have a fear of being what mistaken, right? A fear of thinking. He knows he doesn't know, and Socrates is a very good example. of what that is, huh? Okay. Not on account of this that it is more what worth than the others, right? Huh? For it is first, according to the order of generation, that someone receives precede from evil, which comes about through fear, as is said in the Proverbs, right?

[1:03:26] Then that he do the good, that what comes about through the other what? Other good You know, when Thomas talks about that, the counsel is there, and so on the young man, right? Huh? You want to be perfect, he says. You know, go sell all you have and come follow me, right? When it says selling all you have, I mean giving away, excuse me, giving away all you have is getting rid of the sources of temptation, right?

[1:03:55] Huh? But but the perfection consists in what following him, right? You know, yeah, that's an order there, right? Huh? You know, but that's kind of the order of what, which fear is comes first, right? Okay.

[1:04:14] I mean, so does Socrates have the fear of being mistaken, or the fear of thinking he knows he doesn't know before he has what knowledge, right? But it's better to have knowledge than to have that fear. But you got to get begin with, you know. You're so damn sure of yourself, you know. You're going to get nowhere in philosophy, right? Huh? You know. And Ward Murray tells me, you know, Father Bodet you know, was kind of a third mind up there, you know, and and he was looking for, you know, somebody he could learn from, right?

[1:04:47] And he went down to the University of Montreal, I think it was, and he told him guys, gotta see so and so there, you know, and of course everything he asked the guy rattled off an answer, everything he said. Then he went up, you know, heard about Monsignor Dionne up to see Monsignor Dionne stop, you know. Puzzle you know, very careful. He took one seat as his teacher, right?

[1:05:11] You know. Okay. So it's called according to the order of generation, right? Huh? So if the student comes to me and he's mistaken, what do I do? Scare him. You got to kind of remove his mistake before you can teach him the truth, right? Yeah, that's the order of generation, right?

[1:05:56] It's better to remove a mistake or to teach the truth. Yeah, yeah. By the way, generation. More necessary. Yeah. Why don't it's more necessary? But it's it's any better, right? You know, to teach the truth. Yeah. But if the man is mistaken, you have to remove his mistake first, right? Then his mind will be opened. To

[1:06:20] the second, should be said that piety is not compared in the words of the apostle to all the gifts of God, right? But only to what bodily exercise. Yeah, about which he says before that it is It's a little useful. A little. It's a little useful, yeah. That's what I tell people for exercise nuts. It's a little. To the third, it should be said that science, although it is preferred to counsel by reason of judgment, right?

[1:06:52] Huh. Nevertheless, counsel is preferred by reason of the matter, for counsel does not have place except in what difficult. Yeah. But the judgment of science has place in what all things, right now.

[1:07:10] To the fourth, it should be said that the directive gifts, which pertain to reason, are more worth than the gifts carrying out, right? If we consider them in so far as these acts go forth from their powers, right now, for reason is preeminent to the appetitive power as the regulator or ruler to the rule, right? But for reason of the matter, one joins counsel to fortitude as the directive to the one what carrying it out, and similarly science to piety because counsel and fortitude have what some difficult things, science and piety also in common things, and therefore counsel together with fortitude by reason of the matter is numbered before science and piety.

[1:08:05] Well, we've got to leave that to maybe get the digestion of that topic after after that. Do you know how to digest that? Huh? Wouldn't you say? I think that needs to be. Was it the was in the in the Old Testament there the animals that regurgitate? I mean that ruminate? I mean that ruminate. Yeah, ruminate. Yeah,

[1:08:35] They're better. they're better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Boethius talks about that, right now. The philosopher is a ruminating animal, right? He pulls these things up, you know. I'd run around for a whole day or week, you know, thinking of one sentence I'm going to see the argument say, you know, and keep on. regurgitating it and thinking about what he said you know again.