Prima Secundae
210. Wood, Hay and Straw, Venial Sin in the State of Innocence, and Why Angels Cannot Sin Venially (Aquinas, Question 89, Articles 2-4)
Class of 2015-03-12
https://berquistcourse.com/course/theology/11-prima-secundae/210-wood-hay-and-straw-venial-sin-in-the-state-of-innocence-and/

[0:00] second one goes for thus. It seems that unsuitably, venial sins are designated by wood, hay, and straw. Okay. I hope he's not going to

[0:18] say which venial sins are H. This would be too much of me for us. For wood, hay, and straw are said to be built upon the spiritual what foundation, right?

[0:45] But venial sins are apart from the spiritual building. Just as some false, any false opinions are aside from what knowledge. Therefore, venial sins are not suitably designated by wood,

[1:11] hay, was it, and straw. Okay. So it's a word in English stipulate. Stipulate Does that come from straw? Stipulate. Comes from stipulari which is Latin for demanded as a formal promise. That's what the Latin means, stipulare.

[1:49] Okay. Yeah, when you say stubble, stipula in Latin means straw, or it can imply in the same botany it's some leafy like appendage or an appendage, leaf-like appendage to a leaf, so it's like a little bump or something. That's the last straw. That's the last straw. That's the last straw

[2:13] Okay. Okay. Moreover. The one who builds, right, wood, hay, and straw, will be thus saved as it were, through fire, right? But sometimes the one who commits venial sins will not be saved even through fire. As when venial sins are found in the one who dies, I guess, with mortal sin. Therefore, unsuitably, through wood,

[2:54] hay, and straw, venial sins are designated, right? Because what guess these things have in common? They can be burnt, I guess, huh? Okay. In case of mortal sin, you're burnt. Okay.

[3:12] Moreover, according to the apostle, that's in 2 Corinthians for Saint Paul himself. Thomas follows Augustine, right? That Saint Paul, in this life, right, he saw God in a passing way, as he is. You know if the Church has ever formally announced that or not. I don't know, but Thomas follows Augustine, you know. I think they say maybe Moses too. And Moses too, yeah, yeah, Moses and Saint Paul, you know, they're quite, quite eminent and and witnesses, you know.

[3:55] Sometimes we don't appreciate that the prophets are nothing in the Old Testament, huh? Because that's past history, right? That's history, as they say. We have many of them on our calendar. I know, I know, great. I mean, did Phaestus? Yeah, David, Elijah, Moses, Joel. That comes from your Near East

[4:21] origins, yeah. And we constantly mention the prophets in all our prayers, through the prayers of the patriarchs, prophets, martyrs, apostles. That's kind of the order there. Our apostles, martyrs, and tenets. We used to read that part in the day very tightly during the prophets. You know, it's very interesting. I was talking to Warren on the phone about it, and he says, "how Boulay was so enthusiastic about those ones that I guess Boulay would be up.

[4:48] You know, he he'd suffer from insomnia anyway. He was always studying, and but he'd be up the night before, you know, studying that thing on the prophets, right? And he'd come into class, and he had to talk about that rather than what the the topic of the class was, you know.

[5:07] But really, very interesting, very interesting, you know. Chris Thomas is always interesting, anyway. Moreover, according to the apostle, others who build gold, silver, precious stones, huh? That is the love of God. I guess that's gold, huh? And silver of your neighbor, and precious stones, good deeds, huh? And others who build wood, straw, hay, and straw.

[5:55] But venial sins are committed even by those who love God and their what, neighbor, and do good works, huh? For it is said in the first epistle of John, chapter one, verse eight, if we say that we have not sinned, we seduce ourselves. Call

[6:22] that to the bishop now. Therefore, not suitably do we designate what venial sins through these what three? huh? Moreover, many more differences in grades are there of venial sins than three. Therefore, unsuitably are they comprehended under threes. Here we get the number three coming up again, huh? Well, it's got to be either two or three. Yeah, yeah.

[7:04] Begins this is what the apostle says about the one who builds upon, right? He Builds with wood and hay and straw, that he will be saved, although through fire. And thus he undergoes punishment, but not eternal punishment, huh?

[7:32] Now the obligation of temporal punishment properly pertains to venial sin. This has been said. Therefore, through those three are signified venial sins, huh? Okay. What's a strange way of notifying venial sins, huh? Wood.

[7:56] Our Lord worked with wood, didn't he? Wasn't he a carpenter? Probably helped. Probably helped around the shop there with Joseph, I would think, huh?

[8:07] I mean, you know, Thomas is saying, you know, that Matthew there, this this is the you know life of Christ, is human life, you know, being emphasized there. But you have the the birth and the visit of the Magi, and then boom, you jump up to the to the Sermon on the Mount, right? So you have you know almost thirty years there, almost you know without any count in Matthew, at least, right?

[8:34] A little bit in in Luke, yeah, but. Don't some of the Marian orders have that as something important about the hidden life there? You know,

[8:50] I mean, you know, I read you know a number of biographies of famous people, you know, and every you know year is precious, you know, for the biographer, you know, and to hear his life, you know, what do you know about those intermediary years, right? Mm hmm Father Harden there commented recently. where he said one of the most important reasons he was hidden for all those years so they wouldn't kill him.

[9:16] They tried to kill him when he was born. They got to eventually. Yeah. It was so that he could just grow up and get ready for the mission. But one day, when the one of the most people wanted to throw off the cliff, yeah, yeah, yeah. There are many people with leprosy and Yeah no, with this foreigner got. Oh boy. Ooh, that made them angry, yeah. Salt in their wound

[9:48] Answer: It should be said that some understand the foundation to be unformed faith. That's faith that's not formed by charity, huh? Upon which some build good works, right? Which are signified by gold, silver, and precious stones, huh?

[10:10] Some mortal sins, right? Which are signified according to them by wood, hay, and straw. But this exposition is disproven by none other than this guy called Augustine, right?

[10:32] In the book on faith and works, because as the apostle says to the Galatians, chapter five, who do the works of the flesh will not obtain the kingdom of God, huh? Which is to be saved, huh? To become saved. But the apostle, that's Saint Paul, says that the one who builds wood,

[11:05] hay, and straw will be saved as a word through fire, huh? Whence it cannot be understood by wood, hay, and straw that mortal sins are designated, right?

[11:28] Solid guy that Augustine, huh? Pulling the wool over his eyes. That's a marvelous expression, now pulling the wool over somebody's eyes. Some say that through wood,

[11:48] hay, and straw are signified good works, which are built upon the spiritual building, but nevertheless mixed up with themselves, I guess, huh? Through venial sins, huh? Mix up with them, meaning the good works. Yeah, just as when someone has care of the family thing, right, huh? Which is good, huh? He what mixes in with this a superfluous love, huh? Either of his wife, or his sons, or his what possessions, right?

[12:30] I have superfluous love of my books, for example. But under God, nevertheless, right? Such that for these, the man does not wish to do anything against God. Burn all the books rather than do something against God, right? But still like the books.

[12:51] Washington Irving has a beautiful thing about what's his name there in Scotland. There, you know, fell into bad times and had to sell his books and so on. And how sad the thing this thing was, you know. He had some poems about his passing, you know, of his books away from him.

[13:18] But this again does not seem to be said what suitably, right? For it is manifest that all good deeds are referred to the love of God and neighbor, right? Whence they pertain to what? Gold, silver, and precious stones. Therefore, not to wood, hay, and straw.

[13:46] And therefore, it should be said that those venial sins, which are what, mixed in among those procuring what, dirty things, are signified through wood, hay, and straw. For these are brought together in the house and do not pertain to the building of the house,

[14:14] and therefore they can be burnt with the building remaining. Thus, also venial sins can be multiplied in man with the spiritual building what remaining.

[14:30] That's interesting. I mean, how they use the spiritual building. Unless the Lord build the house, that they were in vain who build it, right? Well, the foundation is faith, and then the walls are what? Hope. And then the roof. Yeah, yeah. And the tools you build with are the sacraments. Don't forget. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[15:04] And for these now, going back to the the venial sins, right? One suffers what fire, either of the temporal tribulation in this life, or of purgatory, after life.

[15:21] So you may not have a moral sin; you may just have all the venial sins of the world, and you're going to you're going to be. And nevertheless, they achieve eternal what? Softly now, the Pharaoh Phidia, nymph and I owe our sins. Be all my sins remembered. The venial sins, right? So,

[15:51] need somebody praying for you, you know. To the first, therefore, it should be said that venial sins are not said to be built upon, right? The spiritual foundation is a word directly placed upon it, right? But because they are placed alongside of it, so to speak, right?

[16:30] Just as is taken that in Psalm one thirty six upon the rivers of Babylon taken that in Psalm one thirty six, upon the rivers of Babylon. That is, yeah.

[16:41] Because the venial sins do not destroy the spiritual what building, huh? I suppose despair would be what would destroy hope, wouldn't it? And despair would be like the immoral sin, wouldn't it? And hate would destroy charity, right? And you know, not a fleeting doubt, but a real, you know,

[17:13] denial of those things. You know, talking about about the guy there before the the it was the Christ the twelfth there was at the

[17:31] not the exception of the assumption yeah the guy was saying if they define this I I'm out you know so don't worry about you're already out okay to

[18:05] the second it should be said it is not said about just any right one building Wood hay and straw anyway building right wood straw hay and straw that he will be saved is a word through fire right but only about the one who builds upon the foundation. Which is not unformed faith, as some estimate right, but faith formed by what, charity? Right. According to that of Ephesians three, rooted and founded in what?

[18:48] Charity. Yeah. That's got a beautiful text there 'cause you got the the meta metaphor, not the word, taken from what the natural things, radicate, right, rooted, and then fundati, kind of things, the buildings, right, from from art.

[19:08] Now the one who dies with mortal sin and venial sins, right, he has wood, hay and straw, but not built upon the spiritual foundation, right, and therefore he will not be saved as it were through what? Fire, Fire right?

[19:32] It could just be through fire. You won't be saved through fire Yeah. Yeah. Now to the third one here. To the third, it should be said that those who are withdrawn, right, from the care of temporal things, although they sometimes sin what, venially, nevertheless they commit light venial sins, right, and frequently, through the fervor of charity, they are what, purged, huh?

[20:10] Whence sins which whence such do not build upon venials, right, because in them little what, remain, huh? But the venial sins of those who are occupied about earthly things, diutius, or lengthy remain, because they not so frequently, huh, are able to recur to deleting these sins through the fervor of what, charity, huh? The fervor of charity burns away the the sins, huh? But those who are I guess busy with temporal things, they go back to them and back, so it's harder for them even to get away from them Mm hmm even the venials.

[21:01] That's interesting. Now we get to the thing about three. This is my favorite text. My favorite stuff. We have such a three-track line. Yeah. No, it's a one-track bike. It's my three things, all in my three things. Two or two or three, two or three-track line. I mean, I know Thomas this morning. He was dividing the the predecessors of Christ, right, into three, right? The patriarch, you know, thing.

[21:37] The first fourteen, the second fourteen, where the the priests were, or something, and the then know the kings. Excuse me, the kings in the last fourteen, with the with the yeah, more the private after the transmigration, yeah.

[21:54] To the fourth, then it should be said, as a philosopher says in the first book on the universe, right, that omnia tribus includuntur, to it beginning, middle, and end. There is a beginning. So. Well, I I told you I was I was talking about Ossley's, you know, thing, and my brother Richard had a copy of that, you know, reprint of that article from the Thomist, and so I read that when I was in high school, you know.

[22:28] Of course, I got down this idea, you know, beginning, middle, and end, right? It's what a plot has to have, right? And you talked a little bit about about about tragedy and so on, but it's about music, right? So then I was saying, what about a Mozart piano concerto, right? It's got three movements, right? Was that one piece of music or is it three pieces of music?

[22:50] Well, unless the three movements form the beginning, middle, and end, it wouldn't be really one piece, would it? It'd really be a concert, you know, where you go to concert and you they play three or four different types of music, right? So obviously it's not three pieces of music; it's one piece of music. It's the twenty-first piano concerto, the twenty-third piano concerto, and so on, right? So the three movements have to form a beginning, middle, and end.

[23:15] So I start listening to them, right? And trying to what? Yeah, and trying to see how the the three movements, you know, form the beginning, middle, and end, right? And you get, you know, like take, you know, my wife's favorite concerto, my brother Marcus's favorite concerto, my Warren Maurice's favorite concerto, Mozart. One of my favorite ones, the twenty-third, right? Okay, the twenty-third is written in A major, which is the key of Mozart.

[23:42] We do something special. But the first movement, of course, is in A major, right? But in the development, there's a little touch of sadness there, you know, something hidden underneath, right? In other words, and and girdlestone wrote the famous book on the Mozart piano concerto, says it's like a you know spring day, you know, where there's you know danger of precipitation, you know, and the sun is shining but kind of what unconvincing, you know, it's not going to last, right?

[24:13] Well, then in the second movement, it comes out in the minor key, you know, and it's terrible, you know, sad thing, you know, and the ladies just go crazy about it, you know.

[24:25] Oh, well then this wood bites, you know, and uh and uh so that sadness, is underlying, comes out, right? And then it's kind of resolved at the end of the second movement, right? And then the third movement you know, begins this bright, you know, succession of melodies, right, and like you know, opening of the ear and things like that and everything, you know, and and then of course later on you get a little touch of that sadness coming back, but you know, it's not like you're running away from it; you're facing it, you know, and and the confidence and so on.

[24:58] So you can see how beginning, middle, and end, right? You know, and so then you see the same thing in the toilet concerto, you know, something we can really point out, right? So beginning, middle, and end. But actually, the text of Aristotle is quoting Pythagoras, who talked about this. Pythagoras said beginning, middle, and end, right? And Aristotle is saying this, this, right? That's what he's talking about: how many dimensions there are, right?

[25:27] And it's only possible to draw three lines that are all in what? Right angles to each other, right? They can't do. It's impossible. Fourth one, right? And so it's kind of a probable argument, right?

[25:42] But just Thomas take this seriously, and secundum hoc, and according to this, right? All grades of angel sins are reduced to three. To wit, to what wood, which remains a long time in the fire, right? The log, you know, before it burns out. To hay, which just straw, citissime expeditur, which right away it goes like that. And then which the straw, which is, I mean, the hay, middle.

[26:13] Oh yeah. Yeah. He reverses the order there He goes from the longest to the shortest Yeah well he did. Yeah. Yeah. You take the opposite sometimes, and you take the middle, right? Okay. Take Mozart's play, the tragedies, the comedies, and then those in the middle, right? Okay. Yeah. And it's kind of beautiful about beginning, middle, and end. Aristotle defines them, right? The beginning has two things where it's opposed to the end.

[26:45] Why the middle has only one thing whereby it's opposed to the beginning, and one thing whereby it's opposed to the end. Because the beginning, he says, is before something, but not after anything. And the end is after something, but not before anything. So there's two oppositions between them, right? Then the middle is after something and before something. So as being after something, it's opposed to what? The beginning, which is not after anything, and being before something, it's opposed to the end, but it's only one end, right?

[27:21] So it's not as opposed, right? So the same way the gray, you know, is opposed to black and white, but not as much as black and white are opposed. You know, so it's beautiful to see the way it lines up. And I was mentioning how in in the the Psalms, right? You know, in Augustine and Thomas, you know, they distinguish three three stages of what? Of charity, right?

[27:47] In beginning, in the middle, in the end, right? And in the three groups of the Psalms, the first fifty are the beginners, right? And then second fifty, progressing, and the third of those resting now, the contemplation of God. So I mean, makes a lot of sense, right? We have those three.

[28:12] Grade school, high school, college. No. No, that's that's that's not clear, but. you could say the act of life to tell life Yeah, but youth, old age, right, and then middle age, and like that. Okay. See, in in the first stage, here in the Psalms, you're fighting against your sins, right? Primarily, right? They do that in every stage, but in the first stage, that's emphasis, right? To stop sinning and repent, right?

[28:54] And therefore, the fifty-fifth Psalm is the one that Saint Teresa of Avila liked so much—the Psalm of Penance, right? And then the second fifty, you're what? Trying to progress in the virtues, right? And yeah, but in the third one, you're resting in God, so kind of makes sense, you know, these things.

[29:19] According then, as venial sins are more or less adherence, or more or less gravity, right? They are what? More quickly or more slowly purged. So some will have a long time to get them all purged away, right? Purgatory, and some will have a less, just a little bit, you know. Some in between. So where are you? That's the question.

[29:54] But we saw that with the with the the three jewels, didn't we? That was into three, huh? Okay. Now let's go back to the state of innocence, now, huh? Hard to imagine that now, but. To the third one proceeds thus: It seems that man, in this state of innocence, would be able to sin what? Venially, huh?

[30:35] I'm just seeing an address of Louis de Broglie there, the great French physicist there, you know, one of these academic institutions here in France, back in 1932, you know. He's talking about how you have to be open to the higher things, you know, huh? And so on. And if you're not, this mechanical age would be nothing more than a than a kind of complicated barbarism, he said.

[31:03] Beautiful about the way he said, you know, you know, the spirit of the machine he was talking about. Okay. It wasn't too sure whether man was getting better or worse, you know. But it says right before Hitler is coming to power, 1932, right? Hitler came to power wasn't 1933, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. Nice demonstration of how good we've become, right?

[31:35] Now, whether man in the state of innocence would be able to sin venially? To the third one proceeds thus: It seems that man in the state of innocence would be able to what? Sin venially. Oh, he's going to take to the side, huh? Because upon that of one Timothy, chapter two, Adam was not what? Seduced. Yeah. No, it was a woman seduced, right? Okay. The gloss says, being inexperienced with the divine severity, right, huh?

[32:18] In that he would be able to what? See it. Yeah. That he believed that it was a venial thing to what? Have been committed, right, huh?

[32:29] But this he would not have believed unless he was able to what? Sin venially, right? It's a sort of argument. These guys are really marvelous, these medieval men, huh? Okay. Therefore, venially he would be able to what?

[32:47] Sin. By not sinning mortally, right? Okay. So I'm going to be a little venial sin here. Eat that, eat that apple, right? But the hell. Okay.

[33:03] Well, that thing I was talking about, this guy the Cistercian was talking to, you know. Oh, God's not going to punch me for not going to mass on Sunday, you know. You know. Can't can't see that either. So now it's a mortal sin, right? He can't see it. This is Adam here. Okay.

[33:24] Moreover, Augustine says in the eleventh book upon Genesis to the letter, "It should not be what judged that man would what be that the tempter would not have thrown man down. I guess

[33:55] unless there had preceded in the soul of man a certain elatio, which is the name of for pride, you know, if he's not already down, yeah.

[34:10] But the elatio preceding what his throwing down, which was made through what immortal sin, the sin that he committed, could not be except a venial sin, right? In other words, he couldn't have he didn't fall until he fell, and so unless this had preceded his falling, so must have been only a venial sin, right? It must have been capable of that, huh? Oh, these are Oh my gosh, Who would think of this, hate to be a magister in the Middle Ages.

[34:48] What do I do when the students threw these things at me? Because maybe Thomas is throwing them at himself. I don't know. Likewise, also in the same work, Augustine says that the man right some

[35:16] desire of experiencing it, you might say, solicited the man, right, huh? When he saw the woman having taken the what forbidden apple, not to have been what dead, yeah. Or maybe he thought maybe you know you won't die when you eat this, right? Didn't he say you'd die if he did that? I'd said that, yeah. What she's she's she's alive Yeah, so yeah So what's the problem there seems to have been in Eve some motion of infidelity, huh?

[35:55] In that she doubted about the words of the Lord, right? As is clear through this that she said, huh? We die. This is had in Genesis three, but these seem to be venial sins. Therefore, man would be able to sin venially before he sinned what mortally, the little before the big, right? When you say yeah, this quite quite reasonable.

[36:27] Moreover, mortal sin is more opposed to the wholeness, the integrity of the first state than venial sin. But man is able to sin mortally, notwithstanding the integrity of the first status. Therefore, also he is be able to sin venially. That's that's like a nice theological place, isn't it? Right. If Adam and Eve were capable of mortal sin, despite being in the state of innocence, they could be capable of venial sin, right?

[37:08] If I could do something really mean, could I do something just a little bit mean? You know. If I'm able to decapitate you, couldn't I just kick in the shin? Yeah. Yeah.

[37:25] But against this is that for each sin there is owed somewhat punishment, huh? What did I mention then? I was looking at the Our Father there in the Sermon on the Mount, and in the Greek there the text is really what debt and debtor, and then the idea of trespassing that comes into the text, you know, later on. So that is almost like a synonym for what he was saying in the Our Father.

[37:58] But we we adopted that word that comes after the actual text of the Our Father, and trespasses. Yeah. Interesting. Because in Arabic they use they do it in Syria too, right?

[38:26] We say Haubai Toan is our sins. What's Haubai That's what I know. In Arabic and Syriac they use two words there. They don't say forgive us our debts. They say forgive us this and this, and I don't know what you do with one of them means sin. What this example that Christ gives later on, you know, about the the man whose debt was forbidden, I mean, forgiven, right?

[38:57] And they wouldn't forgive the debt. Yeah, and that's kind of you know dealing with that part of the Our Father where you say you know that you have to you have to forgive your your neighbor in order to be forgiven by God, right? That kind of fits with the words of the Our Father there, which is debt, right? You know that particular thing. But I don't know how they think got mixed up.

[39:21] I mean, how they got chosen that way. But anyway. Yeah. Okay. Ripped to the. Yeah. Okay, but nothing punishable, right? Could there be in the state of innocence, as Augustine says in the fourteenth book on the City of God? Therefore, one could not sin by some sin by which he was not ejected from that status of integrity. But venial sin does not change the status of man.

[40:07] Therefore, he could not what sin. Venially. Follow that. I wrote there from Augustine. By any sin, You probably said he was not able to commit any sin that he, but he would be thrown out of the state of innocence. Yeah. But then he said, but venial sin doesn't change the state. There could be nothing punishable in the state of innocence, right? So you have to leave the state of innocence, right, to be worthy of punishment, and it's only by mortal sin that you could be leave that status, right?

[40:49] Thomas says, I answer. It should be said that it is commonly right laid down that man in the state of innocence is not able to what sin venially. Now, in my text here, in the bottom, it it refers to, you know, Albert the Great, right, in his thing on the second book of sentences, and Bonaventure, right, in the second sentences, and in his ad claras aquas. That's an addition.

[41:22] Yeah. Okay. Okay. This, however, should not be thus understood, as if that which is for us venial, if it were what committed, would be for them what mortal, on account of the altitude of their state. For the dignity of the person is a certain circumstance aggravating the sin; it does not, however, transfer it to another species, unless there comes about it the deformity of what disobedience or guess of breaking the vow or something, or something of this sort, right, which cannot be said in the thing proposed.

[42:18] Whence that which is of itself venial could not be carried over to the to being mortal, on account of the dignity of the first what. State of innocence. Thus, therefore, it should be understood that he was not able to what sin venially, because he was not able not able to be that he commits something that would be of itself venial before he lost the integrity of the first what.

[42:50] State by sinning more. Yeah. That goes back to that, implied the objection, right? Now, how is he going to justify this? Okay. The reason for this is because venial sin happens in us. Either on account of the imperfection of the act, as sudden motions in the genus of what mortal sins, right? So we have a sudden doubt about the article of the faith or something, right? Or on account of what a disorder existing about those things which are to the end, but not about the end itself, right?

[43:36] Keeping the suitable order to the what end? Now both of these things happen on account of a certain defect of order from the fact that the lower is not contained firmly under the higher.

[44:00] Now that in us there arises suddenly a motion of what sensuality happens from this that sensuality, that's the what emotions now, right? Sense desires are not altogether subject to what reason. Well, they didn't know they were naked until after they sinned, right? So there weren't these sudden unreasonable passions, right?

[44:33] Now that there arises a sudden motion in reason itself comes about in us from this that the carrying out of the act of reason is not what subject to deliberation, which is from the higher good.

[44:54] Now that the human soul is disorder about those things which are towards the end, with the suitable order to the end being kept, this comes about from this that those things which are towards the end are not ordered infallibly there under the end, which holds the highest place as a what beginning in desirable things, as has been said above. But in the state of innocence, as was had in the first one, this was talked about in the first part of the Prima Pars, there was an infallible what, you know, firmness of infallible order, right?

[45:40] That always the lower was contained under the higher, so long as the highest thing of man was contained under God. So so long as what Reason was subject to God. completely then the what emotions in the body, you know, was subject to the reason and the body to the what soul, right? Okay, this this is the beautiful proportion, you know, God, right? And so in the the highest part of man, his reason was no longer subject to God.

[46:12] Then what was lower than reason was no longer subject to reason, right? It's a little bit like that, you know, the story of the debt and the servant, right? So the, yeah. Okay.

[46:34] So quite a high state of life we had in those days, huh? Quite a high, yeah. No, I'm like he's probably he's probably heard it so often. Everybody's been there. What did you do that for? Why did you listen to her? As also Augustine says in the 14th book about the city of God, huh?

[47:01] So Augustine, I think, is one of the main teachers of Thomas, huh? By the written word, huh? Not by the spoken word, huh? They even have MP3s back then.

[47:22] And therefore, it's necessary that what the disorder in man would not be except in what? From this that the highest thing of of man, the highest part of man, was not subject to what? God, huh? And that comes about through mortal sin. From which it is clear that man, in the state of innocence, would not be able to sin venially before he sinned what? Mortally. Now look before and after, right?

[48:06] Isn't this a good example of a before and after that you wouldn't probably think about, right? You had to what? Mortal sin had to come before any venial sins, right? Why in our fallen state now, venial sins happen before mortal sin, right? And they kind of dispose in some way, I suppose, for mortal sin, right? They're not corrected in some way, right? But in the state of innocence, it would be just the reverse.

[48:36] A mortal sin had to come before. See the importance. See how Thomas looks before and after. But I guess Augustine, it was seeing this before and after before Thomas saw it. A lot of before is there, right?

[48:52] Yeah. Yeah. Great man is Augustine. I've talked to you about John Paul II's encyclical Augustine. Realize how important he is for the Church. See the Assumption there. The order is the AA, is it initials? I think you know, Augustinians do the Assumption, right?

[49:36] The Dominicans say you know that their their their Augustinians too yeah yeah that their order and the convent or in the monastery is based upon Augustine's one. You know of Augustine, yeah.

[49:54] Okay. But the the sisters had some Augustinian scholars and all this kind of a thing in the order. Okay. Now, to the first, therefore, it should be said that venial is not taken what there, according as we are now speaking of venial, right? But that is said to be venial, which is easily what. Forgivable. Yeah. Forgivable. Just objection.

[50:51] Okay. To the second, it should be said that that elatio, which went before in the soul of man, was the first mortal sin of man, right?

[51:07] So that pride is was the beginning, right? Well, evil for us, huh? It is said to precede what the casting down of it in the exterior act of of sin.

[51:32] And following this elation, right elation, elatio, yeah, is both the what desire of experiencing in man and the doubt in the woman, where she doubted God, right, under the suggestion of diabolus satana,

[51:57] which from this alone she what? yeah, in a certain ratio that she heard the mention of the precept by the serpent, as she did not wish what to be kept on the precept under precept, yeah.

[52:23] That's why they say you know that they they start their redemption from Mary, right, to redeem the woman womanhood, you know, yeah, yeah. To the third, it should be said that mortal sin, to such an extent, is opposed to the integrity or wholeness of the first status state that it what corrupts it, right? Which venial sin could not what is not able to do,

[52:59] and because there cannot be together any what disorder with the integrity of the first state, it follows that the first man, huh. Would not be able to sin venially before he sinned. What mortally? Let's take a little break after this difficult looking before and after here. This. Angels.

[53:30] To the fourth one goes forward. Thus, it seems that the good or bad angel is able to sin venially, more like us. Yeah, It's not a superiority.

[53:46] Okay. Man, since he comes together with the angels in the highest part of the soul, which is called the mind, according to that of Gregory in his homily,

[54:03] man understands with the angels. It'd be nice if we did. Yeah. You know how how they use the word understanding? You know, sometimes as a synonym for reason, right? Human understanding. And so man has this power called understanding, right? But then, and the angel has it too, called understanding, right? But then, since the angel has fully this power, right? His faculty keeps the name understanding, and we have it in a what shadowed way, as they say, and we get a new name called what reason, right?

[54:47] So in Shakespeare defines, you know, our understanding, he defines it as as a reason, right? And therefore defines it by what discourse, right? And even the second part, the looking, he uses the word looking rather than the word seeing, right? The angel would be seeing before and after, right? You know, and so I mean, the looking goes with with the first part of discourse, you know. And uh Well said.

[55:17] Yeah. yeah I think it's very good yeah Yeah. So ours is properly named. That's one of those basic naming they've talked about a lot, you know. That the the lesser one keeps the what? I mean, lose the name, and the one that fully keeps it keeps it, right? Okay. Sometimes the reverse, right? One that has nothing more than that, right? Keeps the common name, right? So you know, we say is a is a girl, a man, or a woman.

[55:49] Well, she's a woman, right? So we have woman and girl, but then woman is what? One who's fully developed, right? And then the girl gets a new name, you know, because she has imperfect. Same with boy and man, right? Or kitten, you know, it's a kitten. What's different, a kitten and a puppy? Well, kitten is a cat, and a puppy is a dog. You can say that, right?

[56:10] But then we distinguish sometimes between the cat and the kitten, right? Kids are no more cute, you know. Kind of playful, you know. They are like little kids, little boys, you know.

[56:23] Dogs never seem to grow up I know. I know. Yeah. So man understands with the angels, right? But man, according to the higher part of his soul, is able to sin what venially. Therefore, also the angel.

[56:45] Moreover, whoever is able to do what is more is able to do what is less. That's that's like a dialectical place, right? If you lift a hundred, two hundred pounds, you lift a hundred pounds, right? But the angel is able to love what created good more than God, which he did by sinning mortally. Therefore, also is able to love the created good below God in a distorted way, sinning venially.

[57:12] If you do the great, you can do the lesser thing, right? If I can murder you, I can certainly steal from you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[57:26] Moreover, the bad angels seem to do some things which are from their genus venial sins, by provoking men to laughter and to other levities of this sort, huh?

[57:42] But the circumstances of the person does not what make for a what does not make of a venial a mortal sin, as has been said, unless some special prohibition is overstated. I mean, over.

[58:01] Yeah. Which is not in the thing proposed. Therefore, the angel is able to sin venially. Okay. But against this is that greater is perfection of the angel than perfection of man in the first state. But man, the first state, was not able to sin venially. Therefore, much less the angel. That's a good nice dialectic argument, huh? Magnificent.

[58:30] Answer: It should be said that the understanding of the angel, as has been said in the first book, is not discursive, right? So that would not be a good definition of the Chalke understanding that Shakespeare has, right? But he says, "What is a man?" Doesn't say, "What is an angel?" As soon as you just compare man to the angel, right? Huh? Even to call his reason godlike in some way, right?

[59:00] Okay. It's not discursive that it proceeds from premises or principles, beginnings to conclusions, right? Understanding both of them separately, right? As happens in us. Whence it is necessary that whenever one considers conclusion. He considers them what, as they are in the beginnings, right? Okay. Now this famous comparison of Aristotle, but in desirables, as has been said many times, right? Aristotle said at first, ends are like what, beginnings, and those things which are towards the end are like what, conclusions.

[59:56] Whence the mind of the angel is not born towards those things which are towards the end, except according as they are what, standing under the order to the end.

[1:00:12] And an account of this, from his very nature, he has that he is not able in him to have or to be the disorder about those things which are towards the end, except unless there be a disorder about the end itself, because it sees them. Yeah, does have to discourse, right? Which is, yeah. But the good angels are what, not moved, huh?

[1:00:45] In those things which are towards the end, except in order to the what, to the end, which is what, God, huh? An account of this, all of their acts are acts of charity, and thus in them there cannot be a venial sin, huh? Now the evil angels angels are moved into nothing except in order to the end of the sin of pride in them, right? And therefore in all they sin mortally, whatever things that they do by their own what will, huh?

[1:01:28] Unless they do naturally, right? So he goes on to say, is otherwise about the desire of the natural good which is in them, right? That one has to say have to be mortal.

[1:01:43] To the first, therefore, it should be said that man comes together with the angels in mind or in understanding, but he differs in the way of understanding, huh? You understand by discourse, huh? Thomas says sometimes, you know, intelligere hominis est per modum motus, right? The understanding of man is in the manner of motion. It's the most part by discourse that we come to understand something, huh?

[1:02:13] We're kind of like waking up little by little. Yeah. The second should be said that the angel is what? He's not able to love the creature less than God, unless, at the same time, referring to the creature. To God, it's an ultimate end; he can't love it by itself, so to speak, right? Huh?

[1:02:58] It doesn't end in God. Or some disordered end. He's the bad angel, right? For the reason now already said. So he only loves the creature in God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good. So we'll be in heaven, I guess, huh? To be like that, yeah.

[1:03:31] Love each other, only in God. Yeah, yeah. Now, to the third, it should be said that all those things which seem to be venial, the demons procure that they might attract men to their own what familiarity, right? And that thus they might lead them into what mortal sin. Whence, in all such things, they sin mortally, an account of their intention for the end.

[1:04:12] It's interesting, huh? That neither the good nor the bad angel can sin venially, right? But because what everything they do seems is what tied up to their end, right? Because they don't discourse from the end to the means, and so for the good angel, it's always in the end, which is God, and for the devil, it's always in the end of his pride, so he always sins mortally, huh?

[1:04:45] We're we're mixed up in the middle. I know, I know. Shot at from both sides. Yeah. Should we take another article or no? Um

[1:04:58] specific Yeah, I like that one. Okay, we can't finish this. question. Okay.