Secunda Secundae
9. Washington's Virtues, Believing God About God, and Why Truths Reason Can Prove Must Also Be Believed (II-II q.2 a.4)
Class of 2017-11-09
https://berquistcourse.com/course/theology/12-secunda-secundae/009-washingtons-virtues-believing-god-about-god-and-why-truths/

[0:00] Father and the Son, Holy Spirit, Amen. God, our enlightenment. Guardian angels strengthen the lights of our minds, or to illumine our images, and arouse us to consider more correctly. Saint Thomas Aquinas, angelic doctor, help us to understand what you have written.

[0:23] Now, this I'm going to read you right now. It's got something to do with the second part here of the secunda secunda, huh? Yeah. Begin with the few words of John Adams, right? And he, as you know, was the second president of the United States.

[0:43] Having taken the oath of office, Mr. Adams, in his inaugural address, spoke of his predecessor as one who, by a long course of great actions regulated by prudence, justice, temperance, and fortitude, does that ring a bell with you? That's the second half of the the secunda secunda, right? Huh? Okay.

[1:18] So, who, by a long course of great actions regulated by prudence, justice, temperance, and fortitude, had merited the gratitude of his fellow citizens, commanded the highest praises of foreign nations, and secured immortal glory with posterity. Isn't that wonderful? Huh? Okay.

[1:43] Now, you know Adams was vice president under John under him. Okay. Now he has a nice thing here from Jefferson, right? Who, in later years, huh?

[1:58] We subjoin Jefferson's comprehensive character of Washington, the result of long observation. Because he was in the cabinet, you know, as secretary of state and so on. The result of long observation and cabinet experience, and written in after years when there was no temptation to insincere eulogy. This is the quote now that he has from Jefferson. His integrity was most pure. His justice, the most inflexible I have ever known.

[2:38] No motives of interest or consanguinity, of friendship or hatred, being able to bias his decision. He was indeed, in every sense of the word, a wise. A good and a great man.

[3:04] Very impressive, would you say? Now a little bit later on here, when he, when Washington had died, you know, a deep sorrow spread over the nation on hearing that Washington was no more. Congress, which was in session, immediately adjourned for the day. The next morning, it was resolved that the speaker's chair be shrouded with black, that the members and officers of the house wear black during the session, and that a joint committee of both houses be appointed to consider on the most suitable manner of doing honor to the memory of the man, first in war, first in peace, and first in the hearts of his fellow citizens.

[4:00] Public testimonials of grief and reverence were displayed in every part of the Union. Nor were these sentiments confined to the United States. Because you know how Lafayette, you know, you know one of his sons, he named George Washington Lafayette. And you know, in the First World War, when Pershing went over with our, you know, troops, right, and partly to help France fight what Germany and so on, and when he arrived in Paris, he says, "We are here, Lafayette."

[4:31] That's marvelous. When the news of Washington's death reached England, Lord Bridport, ah, who had command of a British fleet of nearly sixty sail of the line, lying at Torbay, ah, he lowered his flag half mast. Every ship following the example.

[4:58] And Bonaparte, first consul of France at this time, on announcing his death to the army, ordered that black crape should be suspended from all the standards and flags throughout the public service for ten days.

[5:18] Now, a little bit here where our friend Washington Irving is summing up a little bit of character Washington. The character of Washington may want some of those poetical elements which dazzle and delight the multitude, but it possessed fewer inequalities and a rarer union of virtues than perhaps ever fell to the lot of one man. Prudence, firmness, sagacity, moderation, an overruling judgment, an immovable justice, courage that never faltered, patience that never wearied.

[6:03] Truth that disdained all artifice, magnanimity without alloy. It seems as if Providence had endowed him in a preeminent degree with the qualities requisite to fit him for the high destiny he was called upon to fulfil—to conduct a momentous revolution, which was to form an era in the history of the world, and to inaugurate a new and untried government.

[6:32] The fame of Washington stands apart from every other in history, shining with a truer lustre and a more benignant glory. With us, his memory remains a national property, where all sympathies throughout our widely extended and diversified empire meet in unison. Under all dissensions and amid all the storms of party, his precepts and example speak to us from the grave with a paternal appeal, and his name, by all revered, forms a universal tie of brotherhood, a watchword of our union.

[7:09] Of course, you know we don't honor him anymore, right? Not his statue down there, Virginia. He ends with this quote from a British, an eminent British statesman,

[7:25] quoting him: "It will be the duty of the historian and sage of all nations," writes an eminent British statesman, Lord Brougham, "to let no occasion pass of commemorating this illustrious man. And until times shall be no more, will attest of the progress which our race has made in wisdom and virtue, be derived from the veneration paid to the immortal name of Washington." That's why I was impressed.

[7:58] What? What year did Washington die? What year? Well it's at the end of the 18th century, you know. He died before the 19th century. Yeah, yeah, he's at the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like my friend Washington Irving, he died before the Civil War, right? So he didn't see that horrible thing, you know. That sort of thing What's the story of Washington Irving? What's the story when Washington Irving was a boy?

[8:26] Oh yeah, he was—he was the first government or first location. The government was in New York, right? And his little handmaid and lady took care of him, you know. She went into this bookshop there, right? And Washington's there looking at books, right? And she said, "She's a little one named after you," you know. She said. So Washington put his hand on the man and gave him a blessing, And so that was the last work he did, you know.

[8:53] And just at the end of his life, he wrote the biography of, urging him to do so, you know. And of course, he was very good at that.

[9:06] Okay, it's only one of the four or five volumes, you know, that pick up the life there of him. But now we got to go back from the cardinal virtues to the virtues, the theological virtues, right? Okay. I was I was thinking about the way that Thomas sometimes shows a certain order among the three virtues. You may recall that he said, "By faith we know our what end.

[9:42] By hope we are towards it, and then by charity we are, and to some extent already joined to our end." Right. Well, I ran across this verse, which I'm sure you're familiar with. It's in the book of Lamentations,

[10:03] okay, and chapter three, there, verse twenty-five. This is verse twenty-five there. The Lord is good to them that hope in Him. That's referring to the second theological virtue. The Lord is good to them that hope in Him, to the soul that seeketh Him. That's like Thomas is saying there, right? By faith you more know what your end is, right? But by hope you are what? Already tending towards the end, huh?

[10:46] And then you know I always go back to Saint Teresa de Silla, you know, huh? About the third thing that Thomas says, right? Because she says it's kind of an astonishing thing when she says it, you know. I don't know what more I can have in heaven than I have now. Our union is already complete. It's an amazing thing, right? What about

[11:12] But Saint Teresa de Silla says a woman has a better heart for love than a man does, right? That's true not only in the natural order but in the in the supernatural order too, huh? Kind of an amazing thing. So to some extent she's already what? By her love for God, the union already joined to her end, right? So I think that makes beautiful sense, you know, in the way Thomas distinguishes them, right?

[11:46] Now last thing before we go back to the text of Thomas. Thomas was what talking about three things involved, right? In the act of faith, huh? And he said this terrible Latin there, right? Credere Deum, Deo, huh? So what? Yeah, and so I thought maybe there's some way of kind of purifying a little bit of Thomas's wisdom there, right? Huh? And but you know put into English, you know, huh?

[12:20] My teacher because he says you've got to sometimes put it into English before you think you really grasp it, right? Yeah. Now there's three things involved in this, right? Okay.

[12:50] You know have you ever seen these texts of Thomas? You know where he's talking about the knowledge, the Trinity, and the question is. Can we know about the Trinity by natural reason alone? And Thomas Aquinas will answer, No, he can't. No, he can't. But anyway, he has objections here on the opposite side, and so on. And he always seems to quote this text from Aristotle in the book on the universe, where Aristotle talks about we praise God by the number three.

[13:25] Oh, did he have something there? And Thomas' reply is that what Aristotle means is that there is a certain perfection in the number three, and the favorite example of the perfection of it is the perfection of what is a beginning, a middle, and an end, right? Aristotle praises what Homer, right? He taught all the other Greeks how to make a good what plot, yeah. And it's not about one man or whatever happened to one man or group of men, but it's about a course of action as a beginning, a middle, and end.

[14:03] That's three, yeah. Okay. So there is some perfection here in these being three, right? Okay. Now, how would I state it in my English, right? That's the guy at the blackboard here, the green board, what do you call it? Yeah.

[14:25] So. Do you think that's spelled right? Looks correct. Okay, it's not quite together. Believing God, okay, which Thomas calls what the formal object, right? Okay, believing God, but about what?

[15:00] About God, okay. Which is good to do. Okay. Those are the three things here, right? Okay, believing God, about God, which is good to do, right?

[15:32] Now, let's talk about these first two things here, right? I was reminded a little bit of what Aristotle says in the proemium to the Three Books on the Soul.

[15:46] What does he say? He says all knowledge, as such, is good, right? Knowledge can be bad only, per accidens, huh? Okay. Now I used to contrast this with love, right? Could you say that all love, as such, is good?

[16:17] No. If I love something bad, that as such is bad. If I know it is bad, that is such bad. Okay. So the contrast between knowledge and what love—all knowledge as such is good.

[16:44] But then Aristotle says, but one knowledge nevertheless, is better than another knowledge, right? And he says there are two reasons why one knowledge can be better than another knowledge. One is that it's about a better thing.

[17:05] The other is that you know something better or certain and so on, right? And in that particular text here in the premium, he doesn't say you know are these two criteria equal, right? See. Well, but in the biological works, right, he says that the main criterion is what you know, not how you know. So it's better to know even imperfectly a better thing than to know perfectly a what?

[17:43] Yeah. I can know with great deal certitude. I can count pretty good, you know, and you know know the number of chairs in this room, you know, great certitude than many other things that I can know with some certitude. But big deal.

[18:00] You see how the moderns are taken up with mathematics and mathematical science because it seems to be more precise and more certain and so on, and therefore this is the kind of knowledge we pursue. Well, that's not true. Okay.

[18:17] But I was thinking about what Aristotle says and about these first two things here, right? Believing God, God can neither deceive nor be deceived, right? So if you're believing God, you're going to be completely what? Certain is going to have excellence, right? But to believe God not about the number of chairs in this room, but to believe God about God—that's the best thing you can know, right?

[18:50] Because you know anyway. It's a knowledge of the best thing there is. The most certain way Yeah. So it's good to have any knowledge of the body, right? But Aristotle emphasizes this when he's talking about the soul, because the soul is a better thing, right? So it's good as such to have knowledge of the body. It's also good as such to have knowledge of the soul. But it's better to know the soul than know the body, because the soul is a better thing than the body, right?

[19:19] And which is better to know the soul, the souls, the different kinds of souls, or to know the angels? They're better, right? Which is better to know the angels or to know God? Yeah. Okay. So the two criteria that Aristotle says, right, having what about a better thing? That's the main one, right? But also to have certitude about this thing and to know well. Hey, my goodness!

[19:53] It seems to touch upon both reasons for saying one knowledge is better than another, right? So? It's good to do that. Good to believe God, and especially about what? About God. Nothing better.

[20:10] Okay. But this last thing here not only talks about the goodness of that knowledge, right, where you believe God about God, right? But it also points the fact that the good is the object now not of reason so much, but it's more the object of what Will. will, and that's important, right? Because we don't have evidence for this, right? We're believing God, right? And we nevertheless, what our reason is moved by our what will in the act of what faith, right?

[20:52] Okay. So you see that it's good to believe. Okay, it's good to do. That's the three things that Thomas talks about, isn't it? But now it's in my native English, right? It's more clear to me, right?

[21:16] Thomas you know talks about the formal object, right, and the material object, and so on, right? So, but this is a good way of saying, isn't it?

[21:26] Three parts, right? That reminds me, you know, that thing that Thomas says, huh? Did Aristotle know something? You know, the objection says, right? Because he says we praise God with three. Thomas says, well, it's because three, what? There's some perfection in three, beginning, middle, and end, huh? Okay.

[21:54] So marvelous thing, right? Okay. I can go back now to where we were, right? I don't say it's a proven fact, Thomas, so you understand.

[22:15] I don't want to be burdened to say. Aristotle. I told you how my my great teacher in the undergraduate days, Kasurik, you know, he was the wisest man at the College of Saint Thomas in Saint Paul, Minnesota. and I'll call themselves the University of Saint Thomas, another one of those, but but he said he was the wisest man in the whole college. But he said compared to Aristotle, I got the mind of a what?

[22:49] Angleworm. Angleworm. He never said how he being compared to Thomas. You get that part. He had great respect for De Koninck right? Because he'd given up philosophy for a while because of the poor teaching he had, you know, as a student. And then he heard about De Koninck, and then he, you know, I'm going to go up there. And he's a little bit older, you know, a little more speaking his mind, you know.

[23:23] When he got there, he said to De Koninck, he says, "If you teach philosophy the way it's been taught to me in the states, I'm going to get up and leave your class." And De Koninck said, "fine. fine I'm as bad as that, he says."

[23:42] So that there's this kind of, you know, from then on they kind of were joking with each other, right? And everyone else in graduate school there, Kasurik was going over to Russia, right, with a group of American professors, you know, kind of a tour. of it's gonna meet the the Minister of Education over there and some things, right? And so I heard from some priest I knew about Kasurik going over.

[24:09] And so he said they told De Koninck you know, that he was going over. He said I hope he keeps his mouth shut over there more than he does here. You never, you never get out, you know. So his wife was was frozen, you know, you know, until he he got out of the Russia, you know, back in the states. But the I guess the CIA asked him to take, you know, a picture, photo of a secret installation.

[24:38] And that's I don't know what they do to you if they catch you. You never know what they would do, you know. And says, "What'd you do a thing like that for?" I said, "Well, since your country asked you to do it, you do it."

[24:55] My my cousin Donald, you know, he went into the navy there for four years before he could go to graduate school. And comes back, you know, from the navy, you know, and he goes to Kasurik and tells all these crazy things that happened in the navy, you know. And he said everything I told him, he'd tell me something even more wild as he did the navy. That's kind of kind of

[25:18] funny, huh? Okay. Now we get to Article what four at least yeah so we'll start there says two yeah It's just too busy here Yeah I've got a little lesser one here it's enough to raise it to sit in

[25:43] to the fourth one proceeds thus it seems that those things which are able to be proven by natural reason is not necessary to what believe them huh

[25:57] for in the works of God nothing superfluous is found much less so than in the what even in the works of nature so how many arms does nature give you Just two. Yeah And when you're carrying the groceries in you know like this and you need another arm to get the door open right then you need three but you don't you don't really you don't really need three need three arms but everybody is at that and wish at one time you know

[26:35] therefore that which can be done through one it's superfluous right to add something else right therefore those things which are able to be known by natural reason it would be superfluous to take them by faith

[26:56] moreover those things that is necessary to believe are the things about which there is faith but there is not knowledge huh and faith or belief about the same thing since therefore scientia is about all those things which can be known by natural reason it seems it's not necessary to believe those things which can be proven by natural reason

[27:26] moreover all things that are knowable by natural reason huh seem to be of one kind if therefore some of them are proposed to men for believing, for like reason then all of them would be necessary to believe huh but this is false

[27:44] therefore those things which are able to be known through natural reason yes yeah it's not necessary to believe them well this dummy here I I don't see any problem with those arguments to you no I

[28:01] got the brains of an egg worm but against this because it is necessary to believe right that God is one and what without a body Without a body. which are proven by natural reason by the what philosophers right what part of the of

[28:29] Natural reason there to do, beat those things about God that he's incorporeal, right, and that he's one. Natural philosophy. Well, I know I'm pretty sure it's in the books of wisdom. Yeah, but you know when when you can say when you think about God, I think you could say there's five parts to thinking about God, and the first part of thinking about God is where the God exists, right?

[29:11] And you know Thomas has five arguments in both Sumas, you know, for that, and but there are actually more arguments than just five. In fact, they don't have exactly the same ones and two. And then what's the second part of thinking about God? Simplicity. No, that's part of it. Yeah, but the second part Thomas says is about the substance of God, okay? And one of the things that is said is that God is what simple, right?

[29:43] So actually, there's five again, right? The simplicity of God and the what perfection of God, those two, and then the what unity of God and the what the infinity of God, infinity of God, and then the the God being unchanging, motionless, right? Now the order in the two Sumas of those five, especially as regards God being unchanging and so on, it's a little different, right? Because the proofs are a little different of the existence of God, right?

[30:25] And you build upon those, huh? Okay. Um. So it's in that second part, the substance of God, right, that you would have what unum at incorporeum right? Incorporeum being part of the the simplicity of God. He's not put together like a body is put together, right? Okay. It's kind of an amazing thing there, you know, Thomas takes it up because especially when you go to the Summa Theologiae, he has a question on the simplicity of God, and there's like eight articles, right, in there.

[31:05] But the first six articles are just proving that this particular kind of composition is not found in God, and then this one and this one and the six articles of that sort, and then the seventh article is showing that in no way can he be composed, in no way can he be put together, right? I see the Summa Contra Gentiles, you know, which is written for the, you know, these these devilishly intelligent, you know, Dominican theologians, right?

[31:33] You know, he begins right away by showing there could be nothing of that sort, right? But when he gets to that seventh article, he says what?

[31:46] He's going to show it by induction as well as by syllogism, and he induces from those six articles before, right? He said, oh my goodness, Thomas must must think that there's only six ways of being put together. That every way of being put together is one of these six. And as you study those six, you realize that the first three ones that he eliminates individually, right, in the first six articles, are the kind of composition or putting together that's found only in material substances, and the last three are found in both, and immaterial one, right?

[32:31] And so you keep thinking about that, and you say, I'm, you know, starting to be convinced, right, that there's only six ways of being put together.

[32:43] And the first way of being put together is to have a body and to have your parts put together, right now. So somehow my liver and my my teeth are kind of attached to, you know, but the way the continuous parts are, right? And then the second, but that's not found in angels, right? They don't have a body either. And then the a second way is what?

[33:08] Well, I'm put together from a body and a soul. That's a different way of being put together. And you know, sometimes you get a kind of a agnostic, you know, scientist or, you know, guy who's dissecting bodies all the time, and you know, I dissect a body, I get a liver and I get a heart and I get a, you know, teeth and I get bones and so on, but you never see, you know, a soul laying there on the table, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[33:36] But I'd be even more surprised than he would be if a soul lay on the table, right? You know, that's really a different kind of thing, right? You know, if you want to take a homeless example of something a little bit like soul and body, right? But it's more proportionally say, you know, if you took apart this chair, you get, you know, some legs and some, you know, seat and so on, but would you get the shape of the chair?

[34:06] No, that's lost, right? It's not going to show up on the parts on the thing, huh? And then Thomas says there's a third kind of composition, and he's very concrete there with me. He says. That whereby Socrates is Socrates, and that whereby Socrates is a man, they're not the same. If Socrates was by the same thing a man, and Socrates, Socrates would be the only man around.

[34:44] And that's the way the angels are, huh? So Michael, right, huh? That whereby Michael is this kind of angel, right, huh? And that whereby he's Michael are the same.

[35:02] That whereby I'm a man, and whereby I'm Dwayne, they're not the same, right? So that's the third kind. But those three kinds of composition are being put together, right? Uh uh is only in. the Material substances, right? And then he has three that are found in material substances and in the angels, right? And one is the composition of the substance and the what

[35:37] being, existence of the thing. Okay. So even in the angels, the substance of the angel and the what the existence of the angel are not the same thing. Okay. And then the there's composition in the angels, like in us, of what it is and it's what powers, right? So the the understanding or the what will of an angel is not the same thing as its substance. And then, strange as it may seem, huh?

[36:13] There's a composition of genus and difference in the angels as well as in in us, right? Huh? You know. But then when he gets to the the seventh article, he he has his inductive argument, right? Huh? He's not in any one of these six ways, God put together. And therefore he's altogether simple. And then he gives the universal reasons, syllogistic reasons, right? You know, magnificent. Magnificent text.

[36:44] Okay. Then he goes on to show that God is universally perfect, right? From what he's shown simplicity, huh? Magnificent. magnificent text. Now, what does Thomas answer? Well, he got a big print there, right? I got one of those things on my computer that does big print like that too, you know.

[37:16] I answer. It should be said that it is necessary for man to take, right, or to receive by way of faith, not only those things which are above reason, but also those things which are able to be what known, okay? And this amounts to three reasons.

[37:39] First, that more quickly man would what arrive at a knowledge of the divine truth. For the knowledge, the reasoned out knowledge, as I call, scientia,

[37:56] to which it pertains to prove that God, but to be and others of these things about God, is proposed last, huh? For men to be learned, huh?

[38:14] Presupposing many other reasoned out knowledge, right? And thus it is not except after much time of life. That man arrives at the knowledge of what God.

[38:30] Okay, well that makes sense to me, right? Huh? We want to wander around the thing, wonder if God exists, you know. From part of your life yeah Yeah, yeah. Well, I got to study logic first, and then I got to study geometry, and then I got to study philosophy, nature, and oh my gosh. Okay.

[39:00] And thus, not except after a long time of life, would man arrive at the knowledge of God. So, it's good to believe God about God, then, right? Huh?

[39:20] Even those things that you can arrive at by your natural reason, as an old man, right? Huh? Okay. The scripture says there and it adds another science adds another pain. In the friendship books, I guess. Yeah, yeah.

[39:41] So an old college professor said, "This worship said once when he was recalling something he taught the year before, and he said, 'I'm sorry to bring up painful memories. '"

[39:58] Second, that the knowledge of God might be more common, right? Huh? For many in the study of reasoned-out knowledge are not able to what progress, right? Even account of the what dullness, Dullness, huh? Yeah, Of their genius powers, or an account of other occupations and necessities of temporal life.

[40:33] Even account of the what torpor laziness, yeah, of learning, right? Huh? These are like the reasons, yeah. Thomas gives for faiths other places, and therefore they would what? defraudently yeah, from the knowledge of God, unless it were proposed divinely, right, through by way of faith. And third, an account of certitude, right? The students up there and believe in God, right? Huh? How could you be more certain?

[41:17] For human reason in divine things is multum deficiens, huh? Which a sign is that the philosophers, right, pursuing human things, right, by natural investigation, in multis era verunt, huh they fell to many errors, yeah, and they said contrary things one to another, right. Therefore, that there might be undoubtful in doubtless I mean, something not to be doubted, and certain knowledge among men about God, it is necessary that divine things be treated by way of faith, as it were, a Deo dicta, right?

[42:07] Who can neither deceive nor be deceived? So to the first, it should be said then that the investigation of natural reason does not suffice for the human race for the knowledge of divine things which can be shown by reason, and therefore it is not superfluous that such things be believed. Got this family that comes, they go to daily mass. There they she comes in, about ten children, I think, you know, but some of them are, you know, school away now.

[42:42] But there's eight of them, you know, and they they all kneel down, and I was kind of watching the other day there because there were

[42:54] four older children and four younger ones, right, or five, I guess, yeah, five, yeah, and each older child had a younger one next to him, right, in the same pew, you know, so they couldn't, you know, get each other, yeah, and then the left one left over, she had, you know, she was holding her arms all the time. There's one little boy, you know, he was up to communion time, but he's not yet, you know, to receive communion, you know, but but he he comes back from the, then he goes over to the the cross, there he kisses the cross, and goes back to his pew, right, and then after after mass he gets out of the pew, gets all his kisses again, goes up,

[43:38] you know, kneels in front of the tabernacle, comes back, kisses again. So he's really he's really really got that, but marvelous, I mean, I'm sure that they they believe, right? You know, but I remember when when I was in graduate school, you know, one time we were in this course where DeConick was was teaching, you know, something about the proofs of God, right, and he says, I think I can prove that God exists, he said, but I would not, I would not be so presumptuous as to say so, you know, and sometimes you get in the high school so I catch you to get the proofs, you know, and they think they understand them and they don't really, you know, and it's but he said.

[44:21] I believe more that God exists, than what my mother told me. Then we're going to study a Thomas, no. But Skinner's kind of a fatherly talk one time, you know. And he was, he did, you know, pretty good.

[44:37] Perverse, perverse man. I told you about it. His session there with with Pius the twelfth. Yeah. Yeah. Told you about that, didn't I? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he had private sessions with a number of theologians, you know. And the edit with Deconic and uh Deconic, you know, went back to what Thomas points out very clearly that strictly speaking, Peter's not in heaven because Peter is something composed of a body and soul, and his soul is there, but Peter's not there, I can see.

[45:17] you know, Well, if the body of Mary had up in the suited to heaven, then Mary would not be there. That's Oh, that's. scandalous. He's very impressed. at He's very impressed at this, you know. Pius XII, they say, you know. Yeah. Yeah. He kind of was always trying to get Monsignor Dionne, you know, to write something for the Laval théologique and philosophique, you know. So he wrote, you know, the grace of Mary is of the hypostatic union.

[45:45] Yeah, yeah. I download it, I found it and I download it. Yeah. I go in, I wrote my thesis under Dionne, you know, and I go in there and and have a little outline of what I'm going to do in my thesis, you know, and he was you know correcting the order and so on, you know. sapientis est ordinare He said yeah it's not good the way it.

[46:22] is now He said well I don't have any evidence he says? But once I had the order, I could do the whole thing on my own because he was going over to Vatican two, you know, and and.

[46:35] these guys are great, great guys. In the days before email. Yeah. Oh yeah. they're good. Okay. Now to the second argument. The second should be said that about the same thing there cannot be knowledge, reasoned out knowledge, and belief in the same person, right? Apud eundem. Okay. But that which is by one man known can be by another what believed, yeah. That's true of all of us.

[47:17] Quite a few years, yeah. You used to know it, but now I just believe it again. Even I who had Aquinas as my first teacher, you know. You know that, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. Sister Saint Joseph there, she was kindergarten, right? Her name was Sister Aquinas, you know. So tell people my first teacher was Aquinas, you know, but wasn't quite ready for for for for the Aquinas.

[47:42] Yeah. Were you speaking of before in the first sense Yeah. Yeah Your first teacher Yeah. To the third, it should be said that if all things knowable can be in the notion of science, right? Is not, however, suitable that they be what ordered to beatitude huh And therefore it's not equally that all proposed to what be believed.

[48:14] Well, we got to that article. If you might we come back over this and especially the would that be okay with you Okay. Okay. This again. So, so this you said, this relates to the three things that Thomas said about. Yeah. So the first one would be credere Deo, right? That would match number one. Well, say credere Deum is kind of the object, I think. Deum The material object, right?

[48:45] And Deo, D E O, would be, you know, you're relying upon God, right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So Deo is the first one. Deo, right? Yeah, Deo, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And then Deum you know. Deum Yeah. Good. And then in Deum And that means that you will, right? Well that's part of it, right? Here I'm kind of being a little playful there. Okay. But it's good to believe God because he can either deceive or be deceived, right?

[49:18] Maybe it's not good to believe, me, you know. Because I can deceive and be deceived, but and nothing better about believe about, right? About God, right? And so that's one reason why I say it's good to do, right? Huh? I can also say that the good is the object, of the will, right? And the will moves reason to to believe, right? Huh? Okay.

[49:47] And so you bring in the fact that the will is moving the reason there to believe, huh? And you have kind of evidence, you know, that it's good to believe, right? But and now comparing it to you know what Aristotle says, you know, all knowledge is such as good, but some knowledge is better because it's more what? It's about a better thing or because it's more certain, right?

[50:13] And this is both of those excellences, right? So you realize that you know the perfection of this act of formed faith, right? Huh? As and you know, reason number three there, right? Praising God. Okay. But it's kind of interesting, you know, when you talk about faith.

[50:40] Um. We haven't studied yet the virtue of faith. yet have we Not yet. We have the object of faith and then the act of faith and then. the profession of faith. But once you acquire the virtue, right? Of faith, right? Then, as in accordance with any virtue, you almost any habit, right? You have a certain inclination following upon the presence of that habit in you, right? Huh?

[51:07] Okay. I was reminded when I was a little boy there, as in Saint Paul, Minnesota, that's my hometown. We'd go over to Minneapolis sometimes and swim in the lakes. Minneapolis called the. you know, it. means that city of of of the lakes, right? And uh, we play play sometimes in Minnehaha Falls, you know, and so on. that sort of thing So we were over there playing, me and my brothers, right?

[51:34] And my mother and father brought us up, you know, respect to, you know, to be just and so on. And here we find a billfold with money in it, right? Well, it never occurred to my mind, right? Yeah, yeah. To to to pocket the money. I mean, it didn't occur to me. I had no temptation. not at all. It just, I'm like, Let's go down to the the concession down there, you know, and say that somebody, you know, reported a lost billfold.

[52:05] No, no, nobody's thing. Of course, we didn't think they're going to take the money. They cursed. And then we went home, and we were looking at the newspaper all the time, and somebody was advertising for a lost thing in Minnehaha Falls where it was. And so we we called him on the phone, right? The other day he comes over. He wasn't too too wealthy, you know, old broken down car, you know, and he's there.

[52:30] And so he made sure that he was the guy that belonged to, you know, the thing. And he wanted to, you know, give us an award. My parents don't even think about it. Yeah. You know, that sort of stuff. So you realize that you have something of the virtue of justice, right? And you're inclined to do what is right. It doesn't even occur to you to do something, you know.

[52:54] Just take my friend George Washington, right? He's really impressive that way, huh? And integrity, and justice, and so on. And what it's like that when you have the virtue of what? Yeah, it's a real habit, right? Huh Inclined to believe And the virtue habit, the virtuous, and you're inclined to believe, right? You're moved to do that. Okay. But

[53:25] you know, I remember Monsignor Dionne always synthesizing how Aristotle after he gives maybe the abstract reason, you know, he'll give a what? Concrete? A, yeah, a sign of the truth of what he's saying, right? Okay. He's very careful with that. It's kind of like going back to your senses before your knowledge begins, right? But what is what is like that in faith?

[53:50] It respects our nature as an animal, right? It has senses and goes back to the senses, right? What is that? Well, it's the miracles, right? Oh, miracles. Yeah, yeah. So there's two ways that we are inclined to believe, right? One is by the habit itself of faith, right? The virtue itself of faith, which, like every virtue, right, inclines you to act there in accord with the inclination given you by the habit.

[54:21] And then also miracles and things of that sort, right? They are what a way they're proportioned to us, you know, who start all our knowledge with the senses, right? And so that's another sign we should believe, right? Okay. The heresy didn't like that. He did like that. He rose from the dead, right? Raised from the dead, right?

[54:47] They tried to kill him too, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And those are very striking things. Signs, huh? A lot of times, too, you know, when when you know even philosophy, you know, when you have an abstract argument, you kind of understand it, you know. You go out and you find a striking example? But you know, oh, you know, that's what he was talking about in class there all day long.

[55:10] I get what he's saying, you know. You know, and something like that. Then you're inclined to believe these things by the virtue of faith itself, and then what? You go out and hear about some miracle or something like that. Right, and as I was just speaking with somebody last week who's coming to faith, it seems, so I kind of spontaneously started to propose examples from the saints, yeah, who did really extraordinary things.

[55:40] I think I used example of Padre Pio. I kind of trying to be respectful, I called him kind of like a freak of God because certain things that happened with him in his life that he did that doesn't seem to fit. There doesn't seem to be any real reason why was he up in the clouds directing the bomber, the Allied bombers to avoid. Why? Why did God?

[56:01] What did he except? That it's a very striking Testimony. And as this lady said to me when I was pointing this out, there's something more to be seen here. Yeah, not just that he's an extraordinary man doing weird things. but there's, something more to this religion and what he is a sign of. Yeah, and the example of the shroud, of Turin Guadalupe and so on those are things that oftentimes with people who are coming to faith that will really strike.

[56:28] Yeah, there's something more to this. So there's these two different things I'm distinguishing here, right? One is that sensible sign, you know, raising Lazarus, or you know, the water and the wine, the first miracle, I guess, you know. But the other thing is the what? If you receive the habit, right? It's an infused habit, right? It's not acquired by your own acts. Then you get a certain what inclination to what?

[56:59] What is in harmony with that habit, right? Okay, so that's a different reason for believing than a miracle, right? Yeah, Father Boulay used to thumb that, into us. That little all there, huh? Uh, ever tell you about Father Boulay? you know, he was a kind of an interesting man, right? And but he spoke a very rapid French, right? Oh. And I get a few lacunae in my my notes, you know, and so on.

[57:29] And so my first oral exam from Father Boulay, huh? And I remember studying the night before and saying, I missed something there, you know. You know, his French, he he talks a get awful Quebec French sometimes too, you know. And so I remember had two or three lacunae in my notes, but but apart from that, I really had the course down my mind, you know. So the first question he asked, boom, he goes in one of those things, I had lacuna.

[58:01] and then second question, boom. So it was at least to me, maybe maybe those three things I just you know drew blank, right? I didn't even you know. And so he sits back in his seat, you know, and he says, "Mr. Berquist," he says, "What do you know?"

[58:23] Well, apart from those, you know, two or 3 little cool names, little things. um, I really had the course down, Uh-huh. And so of course, I was. So my my

[58:33] So what do you know? So I went down, I started out bang, bang, bang, you know, perfect order, you know. He was kind of amazed, you know, and he said, "I'm going to give you the highest possible mark. I want to give you more, but but you can only, you know, and this is the highest number I can give you, right? So I worked hard. I was almost proud, you know.

[58:55] Well, then, then second time I was going to take an oral exam with him, right? And he was they had reversed the alphabetical order, right? So Berquist, usually I would go in almost the first student, and I was the last student going in, right? And so I come in and I sit down, you know, waiting for our exam to begin. He's getting up, you know. He walks over.

[59:24] put his hat, coat on, looks like that, and I'm waiting for him to start the exam, you know. He said Oh, one exam, so he said call me on the phone. He walks out. I said, What the heck am I supposed to? do? What the heck am I supposed to do? Does he expect me to call on the phone, take an oral exam? And so I went to somebody you know who knew him.

[59:44] He said, No, he thinks you really know the stuff. Yeah He's that he's going to give you, you know, top top grade, you know, and so on. And which of course did, you know, this kind of I didn't know what to do, you know. I mean, does he expect me to call on the phone? So he's kind of he's kind of a you know character, yeah, yeah, and yeah.

[1:00:11] I'll tell you other stories about him, but I suppose let's get back to this serious stuff here. He had stopped off at Laval you know, because he'd heard about Monsignor Dionne, right? And I guess he went to some other university. Some other guy had some big reputation. Monsignor Dionne was so careful, and so this is the guy I'm going to study under, you know. So they became very good friends.