Tertia Pars
55. Summa III, Q. 21: The Prayer of Christ – Whether He Prayed, Through His Sense Nature, for Himself, and Whether He Was Always Heard
Class of 2009-10-29
https://berquistcourse.com/course/theology/13-tertia-pars/055-summa-iii-q-21-the-prayer-of-christ-whether-he-prayed-through/

[0:00] Question twenty one here in the premium here. Then we're not to consider about the prayer of Christ, and about this are asked four things. First, whether it belongs to Christ to what pray?

[0:21] Second, article is rather strange. whether it belongs to him according to his what? His animal nature, right? That's strange. Whether it belongs to him to pray for himself, or only for what others?

[0:41] A chapter in John, he has a prayer for himself, and then he has a prayer for the apostles, and then a prayer for those who are going to believe the apostles. And then, whether every prayer of his, it's heard, right? Okay. To the first one goes forward. Thus, it seems that it does not belong to Christ to pray. For as Damascene says, prayer is the asking of suitable things from God.

[1:16] That's that's a definition that's used a lot by Thomas on that prayer, that definition. But since Christ was able to do what all things, it does not seem to belong to him that he asks for anything from anyone. Therefore, it seems that Christ does not belong to Christ to pray.

[1:40] We're not going to human nature, though. Anyway let's see what he says. More is not necessary in praying to ask for that which someone knows will be in the future certainly, huh?

[1:58] Just as we do not pray that the sun will rise tomorrow. Maybe we should. I don't know. Nor is it suitable that someone in praying asks for that which he knows will in no way be in the future. But Christ knew about all things what would be in the future. Therefore, it does not belong to him in praying to ask for anything. Huh? It's interesting argument. More what Damascene says in the third book that prayer is the ascent of the understanding to God.

[2:45] Of course, those two definitions are both necessary to to make a perfect definition of prayer. But the understanding of Christ does not need to go up to God, because always his understanding was joined to God, huh? Not only according to the hypostatic union, but also according to his enjoyment of what beatitude, he saw God as he was, face to face. Therefore, Christ does not does not belong to Christ to to pray.

[3:19] That's a very interesting answer. Very interesting than previous, which I said. Much more interesting than the previous question. But against this is what is said in Luke chapter six. He was in those days. It happened those days that he went forth to the mountain to pray, right? And he was what involved the whole night in the prayer of God. Yes, some night the one I had this morning.

[3:57] I answer: It should be said. This has been said in the second part that prayer is a certain unfolding, you might say, of one's own will before God, right? That it might be what fulfilled, huh? If therefore in Christ there was only one will, to wit, the divine, right? In no way would it belong to him to what pray, because the divine will, through itself, is effective of all those things which it wills, according to that of Psalm one thirty four.

[4:39] All things, whatever that he wills, God makes. But because in Christ other is the divine will and the human will, right? And the human will is not through itself, right? Efficacious to fulfilling those things which it wills, except through the divine power. Hence, it is that Christ, according as he is man, and having a what human will, it belongs to him to pray. That seems reasonable to me, right?

[5:25] To the first, therefore, it, should be said that Christ is able to perfect all things which he willed, according as he is God, not according as he is what man.

[5:40] Because according as he was man, he did not have omnipotence, huh? As has been had above. Nevertheless, he himself, being God and man, right. wished to what? To the Father, right? Not as if he himself were impotent, right? But on account of our what instruction?

[6:15] I know he seems to be saying that he's praying to the Father, right? Okay. First, that he might show himself to be from the Father, right? Whence he himself says in John chapter eleven, on account of this people that stand around, right, I have said, to wit, the words of prayer, that they might believe that you have what sent me. Whence Hilary, in the tenth book about the Trinity, said, "Huh?

[6:48] He did not need prayer, right? But he prayed for us, lest we be ignorant of his being the Son. Secondly, that he might give to us an example. Whence Ambrose says about Luke and Luke, ah,

[7:13] do not be so insidious, right? To open ears, right? That you think the Son of God has one infirm to ask, right? That that might be what fulfilled that he himself was not able to fulfill. For he is the author, the origin of power, right? The teacher of what obedience? Ah,

[7:45] and to the precepts of virtue, he informs us by his own example. Whence Augustine says upon John, "Huh? He, the Lord, was able in the form of a servant, if it was what necessary to pray in silence. But thus he wished to what show himself a prayer to the Father, right? That he would keep in mind that he was our what teacher, teacher by example. Okay. Now

[8:25] the second objection is saying he knew the future. To the second, it should be said that among the things that Christ knew were in the future, he knew some of them to come about in account of his prayer. It's kind of a subtle thing that he tells us. And these things, not unsuitably, he asked from God, huh?

[9:03] Now the third objection from the other definition of prayer, right? To the third, it should be said that ascension is nothing other than a motion in that which is above.

[9:17] But motion, as is said in the third book about the soul, is said in two ways. In one way, properly, according as it implies the going forth from ability to act, in so far as it is an act of the imperfect, that's what motion means in the eight books of natural hearing, right? And thus to ascend belongs to that which is what in potency above and not in what act.

[9:46] And in this way, Damascene says in the third book, the understanding, the human understanding of Christ, did not need to go up to God because it was always united to God, right? Both according to its personal being, right, and according to the blessed contemplation, he was seeing God always, right, face to face. In another way, motion is said to be the act of the perfect; that is, of what exists in act.

[10:19] Just as to understand and to sense are said to be a certain motion, and in this way, the understanding of Christ always ascended to God, because he always contemplated him as existing above himself. It's beautifully said.

[10:39] Can you review that with us again? That distinction would be. You know, Aristotle in the in the third book of the soul, he'll he'll kind of deny, strictly speaking, in the strict sense, sensing or understanding is emotion, right? But sometimes, because motion is the activity that's most known to us, sometimes we kind of carry the word over and say, "You're moved," right? Okay. And so sometimes even the talk of God they say you know he's he's moved by his own goodness right to do this or that right, but you don't really mean motion in the original sense of the word.

[11:20] Okay. You know the way that Aristotle brings out the difference between these two things in the ninth book of wisdom is he'll say, when you're walking home, you haven't walked home yet,

[11:40] and when you have walked home, you're not walking home. But when you're understanding what a triangle is, you have understood what a triangle is.

[11:52] So the activity of walking home is always incomplete, right? And in a sense, it never becomes complete because when you have walked home, you're not walking home. Yeah, see. But the activity of understanding and even the activity of hearing the music of Mozart, when you're hearing the music of Mozart, you have heard the music of Mozart. When you're understanding what a triangle is, you have understood a triangle is.

[12:19] That's a perfect act, right? Thomas will use the word in the commentary or operatio as opposed to motion, right? But it comes up again when Plato will sometimes say, you know, that the first mover moves itself, right? Of course, Thomas understands that as meaning that God knows and loves himself, right? And of course, you know, you find that in our in our language, right, because we'll use the the verb obviously for knowing and loving, and and the verb always signifies with time, and time is the measure of motion, so there's a tendency to carry over the word.

[13:00] Motion, but it's really a different type of act. From it's actually perfect. Okay. Now, whether it belongs to Christ to pray according to his what sensuality, meaning his what animal nature, right, his sensory nature.

[13:40] The second one proceeds thus: It seems that it belongs to Christ to pray according to his sensual nature, his animal nature. For it is said in Psalm eighty-three, from the person of Christ, Cor meum et caro mea, exultaverunt in the living God, right? Reminds me of that Psalm there: O God, you are my God; why seek you, my flesh pines, my soul thirsts. But sensualitas is said to be the what desire of the flesh, right?

[14:19] Therefore, Christ's sensuality can ascend to God, to the living God, exalting in Him, right? And for a like reason, praying. Moreover, of that it belong, it seems to belong, or seems to be to pray, of whom it is to desire what is asked for, right? But Christ asked something that he desired, that sensuality desired, when he said, "Let this chalice pass from me." Therefore, the sensuality of Christ prayed.

[15:03] It's interesting to come down the psalm sometimes. Thomas expounds the psalm and he say, "Well, here God is answering not the prayer, but the desire of the man, right? Because the desire kind of is in principle or in potency, kind of a prayer, right? And so sometimes God answers a prayer, sometimes He answers a desire without the prayer, right? I say, here I got this desire for food or something, you know.

[15:27] So maybe He'll answer those desires too, right? Okay. Moreover, it is more to be united to God in person than to ascend to God by prayer.

[15:43] But since sensuality, like the body itself, was assumed by God in unity of the person, and this is emphasized by John, he says, "In the Word was made what flesh, um,

[16:00] just as as any part of human nature. Therefore, even more so could it ascend to God praying. But against this is what is said in Philippians two. It is said that the Son of God, according to the nature which he assumed, was made in the likeness of what man. But other men don't pray according to their. sensuality. therefore, neither Christ prays according to his sensuality. So, do I pray by my emotions?

[16:38] Well, Thomas is going to reply to this now. He's going to use his reason, look for distinctions, right? The answer: it should be said that to pray according to sensuality can be understood in two ways.

[16:55] In one way, that prayer is an act of sensuality, and in this way, Christ did not pray according to sensuality. Now the kid is asking for something. The sensuality is asking for the candy or what? You got? You people have Halloween here or not? Do they come here demanding candy?

[17:24] I'm always waiting to stock up so that we can eat afterwards. We should be prepared. for taking for the real thing Oh yeah anyway

[17:41] Because his sensuality was of the same nature and species in Christ as in us, right? For in us, he is not able to pray for twofold what reason. First, because the motion of sensuality is not able to what transcends sense things, right, sensitive things, and therefore is not able to go up to God, which is required for prayer, right?

[18:18] Secondly, because prayer implies a certain ordering, in so far as someone desires something as to be what fulfilled by God, and this is only a reason to order things,

[18:34] looking before and after. Hence, prayer is an act of reason, right? Now, in the second part, when Thomas takes up, I think it's the virtue of religion, right? The fundamental act of the virtue of religion is devotion, right? But then the second act is that of prayer, and prayer is really an act of what reason, unfolding and ordering, you know, what you want done to satisfy your desire, right?

[19:01] But the act of devotion there is more fundamental, right? Prayer must be done. So, for ratio is an act of reason; it can't be an act of what sensuality. This devotion, you call it an act of the will, or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And why is that first? Well, because the will is moving the reason here. Okay.

[19:28] So so they say prayer is the interpreter of desire, right? Is that because of the connection of faith, or just the parallel, or something else going on here? Well, I mean, when when Augustine and Thomas give their catechetical lessons, so to speak, they attribute the creed to faith and prayer to hope, and then the you know commandments on to to charity, right?

[19:58] Um. But you know when they talk about what's necessary for prayer to be heard, as far as dispositions of your will, they usually say there are three, right? Devotion and humility, right? And

[20:19] the other one. What? No, I mean the other act of the will there. A hope, yeah, yeah. Okay. So you have the hope and the devotion, and and the humility, right? And we kind of go through the ingredient of indulgences where they have the prayers, in order for these prayers to be to gain indulgence, it got to be said devoutly and with humility and so, and and it doesn't always spell out all three of those, but but all three of them show up somewhere in the text, you know,

[21:03] and and Thomas will say you know a devotion comes from charity, right? So in the Our Father we say Our Father, the Father is the name of endearment, and you know how Mother, I mean Saint Teresa of the Sorrows, would you know what are you doing? She's saying how nice it is to call him Father, right? That's what she's meditating on, right? Did that one thing there, and you say Our, you should love your neighbor, right?

[21:28] So Thomas says why do why do we say Our Father? You know, well, prayer it is to what arouse your devotion, right? Okay. So,

[21:42] but but prayer itself is kind of what the expression of what your desire is by reason, right? The unfolding of it, as it were, right? Um.

[21:55] We saw here in the reply to the first article there, oratio as quaedam explicatio, right? proprii voluntatis, huh? Before God that He might what fulfill it, right? So it's kind of a unfolding of your desire in the order in which you you want God to act to realize your desires, right?

[22:37] In a way, these two reasons he gives here they they kind of correspond to those two definitions of of Damascene, right? The one of being the center of the mind to God, and the other being kind of the laying out, right, what you you want him to to do, right?

[23:02] In another way, one can be said to what pray according to sensuality, because his reason, right, in praying to God, proposes that there what what was what is in the desire of his what sensuality, right? Insofar as his prayer expresses again, that word expresses right, and the affection of sensuality as being, as were the advocate and the lawyer, representing the what sensuality, right?

[23:42] And that's probably like in some of the psalms saying, you know, O God, you're my God, whom have I, in heaven? For you my flesh pines my flesh pines, right? So even the body desires right to be glorified, right? Okay.

[24:01] So in that sense, Christ could pray according to sensuality, right? Not that his prayer would be an act of sensuality, but as if his prayer is what in some way expressing what is in the sensuality desires, yeah. And this that he might instruct us about three things. First, that he might show us that he had taken on a true human nature, with all of its natural affections, right?

[24:35] Secondly, that he might show that is licit for man, right, according to his natural affection, to will something that God does not what will.

[24:49] And third, that he might show what that man ought to subject his own affection, right, to the what divine will. Whence Augustine says in Enchiridion, thus Christ, right, Geron's what is that? Bearing humanity. Yeah. He's king. Shows the what private will of a man when he says, "Let this chalice pass from me," right? Um, for this was the human will, its own thing, right, and something private will wishing, right.

[25:32] But because he what wishes to be a rectified man, right, and be directed to God, he joins, but not as I will, but as you, right?

[25:47] As if to say, see you and me, because he is able to what see yourself in me, right? Because he is able to will something of his own, even though God wills something else, right? Very, very interesting.

[26:17] Like we say, Paul wanted his stimulus for those of the flesh, right? To be moved, right? He was willing something, right? According to the, yeah. But he said no, no, it's, yeah, yeah.

[26:35] Now, what about this objection that says, "Well, the heart is exulting in the true God, right, The living God"? To the first, therefore, it should be said that the flesh exalts in the living God, not through an act of the flesh ascending to God, right? But through the overflowing, right, from the heart to the flesh, right, in so far as the sense desire follows the motion of the rational.

[27:06] Exactly. Moses coming down from the mountain, his face is shiny Yeah, yeah. What's what's thing there in the life of, of Saint Teresa of Avila? There, you know, when she comes out of things, she wants to dance with the other nuns. So it's you know overflowing, right, down into the body, right. Yeah. Kind of marvelous little scene there.

[27:32] I don't remember that part. Yeah, yeah, that's that's. I know she had it. Yeah, yeah. You hear about that? I told you about the one about partridge. You know that one, notcha? Yeah. Someone brought some partridge up there, and some other nun thought that she was enjoying the partridge a little too much, and she says, "Well, penance is penance, and partridge is partridge." Yeah, all right. Doctor of the Church, don't forget that.

[28:16] The second should be said, although sensuality, right, wished what reason asked, right. Nevertheless, by praying to after this was not a sensuality, but a reason has been set up.

[28:38] Now the third objection: the union in person is according to what personal being, which pertains to each part of human nature. But the ascension of prayer is through an act which does not belong except to reason, whence there is not a what like reason. So we get ten. Another article, right? What? He could probably really do both of them. Okay. To the third one goes forward. Thus, it seems that it does not it was not suitable for Christ to pray for himself, right?

[29:31] For Hilary says in the tenth book about the Trinity, since to him would not what benefit the the speech of prayer, right? To the progress of our faith, he he spoke, right? Thus, therefore, it seems that Christ, not for himself, but for us, would pray, right?

[30:01] Moreover, no one prays except for that which he what wills, because as has been said, prayer is a certain unfolding, I guess you'd say, huh, of the will through God to be fulfilled, right?

[30:21] Unfolding the desires you have that you wish he would help to accomplish, right? But Christ wished to suffer those things which he what suffered, huh? For Augustine says in the twenty sixth book against Faust

[30:40] that man many times, though he doesn't want to, is saddened, right? Huh? Although he what doesn't want to, he sleeps at me now in my old age. Further, not willing, he eats and what he's hungry and thirsts. But Christ had all these things because he wanted to, right? And therefore, did not belong to him to pray for himself. Moreover, Cyprian says in the book about the prayer of the Lord's Prayer, the Our Father, that the Master of peace and unity did not wish that to come about a private prayer, right?

[31:30] Um, that when someone prays that he would pray only for himself, so we say Our Father, right? Okay. Um, but Christ fulfilled what he taught according to that of Act One. Jesus began to to do and to teach, right? Therefore, Christ never prayed for himself alone.

[32:02] Okay, but then like the objection I was giving there from the chapter seventeen, right? The way Thomas divides it, he prays for himself, then he prays for the apostles, and he prays for those who will believe through the apostles. So there's three prayers there, right? And you know, of course, we pay most attention to the Our Father, but Christ teaches us some other prayers in that chapter, so they shouldn't be neglected.

[32:29] Well, I answer, Thomas says. It should be said that Christ prays for himself in two ways. In one way, by expressing the affection of his what sensuality, as has been said,

[32:53] or also of his simple will, which is considered as a what nature, as when he prayed that the what chalice of the passion might be taken away. Um, carried away. Now that's two examples. The first, yeah. In another way, by expressing the affection of his will that is deliberated, right, deliberate will, which is considered as what reason, right? Now he doesn't mean the will is reason, but he means reason as opposed to nature, right?

[33:37] As when he asked for the glory of the what resurrection, and this reasonably, for as has been said, Christ, ah, for this reason wanted to use prayer to the Father that he might give to us an example of praying, right, and that he might show the Father to be the author from whom both eternally he went forward according to his divine nature, and according to his human nature, from whom he has whatever good he has.

[34:26] He wanted to show that the Father was the origin both of his divine nature, right, and of all the good this human nature had.

[34:40] But just as in his human nature he had some goods from the Father already received, right, so also expected from him some goods not yet had but to be received, right. And therefore, for the goods already received in human nature, he gave thanks to the Father, recognizing him as the the source and the author, as is clear in Matthew twenty six twenty seven and John eleven forty one.

[35:18] So also, as Father is recognized, the Father to be the Author, Origin. He asked, praying from Him, the things that were what lacking in his human nature, according to his human nature, to wit, the glory of the body and things of this sort. And in this also, He gave to us an example that of the gifts we have received. I guess we give thanks, right? So you can't ask God for the creation of your immortal soul, but you should thank Him, and well, thank Him for for for your creation of your soul.

[36:06] And the things not yet had that we should ask by for praying, right? So you ask for the vision. how to get there Okay

[36:18] Now, how about this text from the great Hilary? To the first, it should be said that Hilary speaks as regards what vocal prayer, right? Which was not necessary to him on account of himself, but only on account of what us. Whence he says significantly that it did not what benefit him the ceremony, speech of prayer.

[36:53] For if God, if the Lord hears the desire of the poor, right, as is said in the Psalm nine, much more the will of Christ the vim rationis I think that's from the commentary on the Psalms, right, where Thomas says sometimes desire has the vim rationis, not prayers in full sense. Whence he himself says in John eleven, "I know that you always hear me, but an account of this, people who are standing around have said this, that they might believe that you have sent me, right?

[37:32] " That's one of the reasons he gives, right? Now, as an example to us, but but recognize his authority Yeah, his origin is from the Father, right?

[37:45] Now, what about this thing about the arm of the Passion here? To the second, it should be said that Christ willed to undergo those things that He suffered for that time, but nevertheless He willed that after the Passion He would acquire the glory of the body, right, which He did not yet have. Which glory He expected from the Father, as from the Origin of it. And therefore, suitably from him, he asked for it.

[38:18] That's the first prayer there in that chapter seventeen of John. To third, it should be said that that glory which Christ by praying asked for himself pertains also to the salvation of others.

[38:44] According to that of Romans four, he rose from the dead on account of our what justification. And therefore, that prayer which he made for himself was in some way also for others.

[39:04] Just as whatever man asks some good from God that he may use it to the usefulness of others and not for himself only, he prays also for others. Right. Okay we'll look at the last one here now?

[39:28] Whether the prayer of Christ was always what heard? To the fourth one goes forward. Thus, it seems that the prayer of Christ was not always heard.

[39:45] For he asked from himself to be removed the chalice of the passion, right? Which nevertheless was not carried off. Not translated. Therefore, it seems that not every prayer of his was what heard.

[40:07] Moreover, he prayed that his sin would not be what. Sin of crucifix. Yeah, Father, forgive them, right? But not to all was that sin dismissed, right? For some it was, but not all. For the Jews were punished for that sin.

[40:32] Therefore, it seems that not every what prayer of his was heard. Moreover, Christ prayed for those who would believe through the word of the apostles in Him. That all in Him would be what one. That it is also that's a third prayer I said in the seventeenth chapter, that they might arrive at this, that they would be with Him. But not all arrive at this, right? Therefore, not every prayer of his was heard.

[41:13] Moreover, in Psalm 21 it is said, "In the person of Christ, I cried through the day, and you didn't hear me." Therefore, not every prayer of his is heard. That's a rough. That's a rough one.

[41:30] But against this is what the apostle says in Hebrew 5 verse 7. With great clamor and tears, right? Offering, he was heard for his what reverence, huh?

[41:46] Let's have the idea of humility there in prayer reverence. Okay. Let's see what the master says here. I answer: It should be said that as has been said, prayer is in some way interpretativa, right? In the Book of Aristotle, the Interpretatione, okay? Interprets the human will, right? Okay.

[42:17] Then, therefore. The prayer of the one praying is heard when his will is fulfilled. Now, it's going to distinguish the will simply of man is the will of what reason.

[42:38] For that, absolutely, we will that we will according to reason as deliberated about these things. But that we will according to the motion of sensuality, or even according to the motion of simple will, which is considered as nature, we do not simply what will, but secundum quid. Again, that distinction goes into there, right? As I used to say, you know, that's really. you had to almost, go to Aristotle's book on sophistical refutations where he talks about the different kinds of mistakes, and they all seem to arrive at most of them from overlooking some distinction, right?

[43:26] So you kind of learn about the kinds of distinctions that you have to see to avoid these mistakes, right? But also the kinds of distinction you have to see to see the the truth about these things.

[43:41] Um. Okay. Which is considered as nature, but not simply do we will, but secundum quid, right? If something else did not what. Yeah, it was found through the liberation of reason, right?

[44:11] Whence such a will should more be called velleitas than absolute will, right? Because man would will this if nothing else stood in the way. I don't want to do it, but I will. Am I willing to do it or not? Huh? We see it, don't we? Sometimes. Yeah.

[44:45] I think Saint John of the Cross speaks that way even of God in some way, where he says, "Sometimes God grants our requests, but they're kind of childish requests. The things that we should do without, we should mature. But sometimes, because he treats us like children and he's tolerant of us like a parent, he's a spoiled child, he doesn't give us things that he really doesn't want to give us in a certain way.

[45:08] He he thinks we should be more mature, not ask things, but he gives them to us sometimes. So he speaks in a certain way, like a way parent will. I don't want to give the kid this, it's going to be more rotten. When my children growing up, you know, we decided not to have a TV, you know. But one thing you do with the little children is you read them, you know, stories and things, so on, and then read another one, you know, your your voice again.

[45:32] So you want to stop, you know, but but but your deliberate will is is yeah keep on going yeah. But they say all things considered right I don't want to do this

[45:50] now according to the will of reason Christ nothing other willed except what he knew God to will and therefore the absolute will of Christ even the human was fulfilled right why because it was conformed to God right and consequently every prayer of his was heard right for according to this the prayers of others are fulfilled right that they are conformed their wills to God right according to that of Romans eight who scrutinizes the hearts right knows That is, approves what the Spirit desires that is what he makes the saints to what desire because according to God that is according to the conformity to the divine will he what asks for the saints son he groans in us son okay

[46:56] now what about this removing of the chalice right well to the first therefore should be said that that asking about the translation of the chalice is diversely expounded by the what saints for Hilary says on Matthew that

[47:23] he asks that it that pass from him right not that he what he does not pray that he would what yeah but that others may share in that which passes on from him to them. Yeah.

[47:51] but as in another right that from that passes from him might what exceed and therefore he prays for those who would suffer after himself is that it

[48:10] the sense would be in what way in the way by me is drunk the chalice of passion, right so it might be drunk by others right. Without the diffidence of hope, without the sense of what pain, without the fear of death—that's kind of the thing, huh? Or according to Jerome, he significantly says, "This chalice, that is of the people of the Jews, who were not able to have the excuse of ignorance, right?

[48:48] If they killed me, right, having the law and the prophets, which what? Prophecy, yeah, yeah. Okay. Or according to Dionysius the Alexandrian, um, who's what he says, uh, that this chalice passing me

[49:22] is not this that had not come to me, right? Because unless it comes to me, it could not be what pass. But just as what pass

[49:38] is neither what untouched nor what permanent, so the Savior Levitir lightly, uh. The coming upon him temptation, right? Mhm He what? Scourges his flesh. What does that mean Yeah. What does it say? How do you translate? So the Savior beseeches that a slightly pressing trial may be repulsed. Hmm.

[50:14] You might come and and and and go away. I don't know if that's it there, or not. But maybe the more simple explanation of Ambrose, right, And Origen, and Chrysostom, say that he asks, as it were man, as a man by his natural will, right, refusing death. That's the way it's usually explained. Yes. Okay.

[50:40] If therefore, it be understood that he asks through this, that other martyrs of his what? Imitators Yeah, it might pass from him to them, from him to them, right? According to Hilary. Or if he asked that the fear of what drinking the chalice would not what trouble him, or that death would not what detain him, right? You know,

[51:14] altogether is fulfilled that which he asks, right? That's the earlier. These are the earlier explanations here. If it be understood to have asked that he did not drink, he would not drink the chalice of passion, death, or he would not drink it from the Jews. Ah, what he asked for was not done, right? Because the reason which proposed petition did not wish that what it be fulfilled, right?

[51:46] But for our instruction, he wished to declare to us what his natural will was, right, and what was the motion of sensuality, which as a man he had. huh?

[52:00] That's kind of complicated. Well I should say it's subtle. Okay. To the second, it should be said, huh? That Christ did not pray for all of those what, nor for all who would what believe in him, but for those only who were predestined that through him they would what Obtain eternal life. That's kind of interesting. Now

[52:43] I was reading Thomas there, just the text in John there. Where Christ says, "A prophet is not what? " "On his own country, right? " And Thomas says, "Well, some prophets were, right? " "Yeah. " "Well, Christ is speaking in what Aristotle would call an indefinite sentence, right? "

[53:11] "Like we say, boys will be boys, right? " "Yeah. " "We're not saying explicitly that every boy will act like a boy at all times, right? " "Hmm. " "But we're speaking about what is true for the most part, right? " "Yeah. " "Okay. " "So when Christ says, 'Forgive them, for they don't know what they do, ' he's not saying explicitly forgive all, right? " "Hmm.

[53:33] " "And so it can be understood as meaning most or or some, right? " "Hmm. " "What's called an indefinite sentence? " "Is that it? " "Yeah, yeah. If you say, you know, all women are crazy, right? " "True. " "Well,

[53:57] yeah. " "But but but to say if you seriously say women are crazy, I don't mean everyone, you know, but just most of them. " "Teen teenagers. " "Yeah, yeah, yeah. " "Does that explain that St. Paul is saying, 'All have sinned, but it doesn't include

[54:18] Mary? '" "Yeah. " "Yeah. Yeah. " "Yeah. " "One more objection here. " "Okay. " "Mr. Jonathan. " "The same way, same way he solves the third objection, right? As he does the second objection, he says that.

[54:34] To the fourth, it should be said that when he says he cried out and was you do not hear, I climb out, I cry out and you do not hear, it should be understood as regards the affection of what? " "No. " "Yeah, which refused death, right? So he allowed his body to naturally what? " "Fear and so on. " "But he was heard as regards the affection of his what?

[54:58] " "Reason. " "huh? You see the perfect order? " "in his prayer. Yeah. " "Because his sensuality desired, what's natural. What? Because his sensuality desired what Yeah. " "you might say he expressed, which is natural, Mm-hmm. The order, but then he subjected that to reason. " "Yeah.

[55:21] Yeah, yeah. " "Aristotle had the example, you know, the man who takes uh, things to the ship, you know, and throws them over in order to avoid this, the whole thing going down, right? Does he want to lose all that? " "No. But but simply speaking, you'd say he does choose to to throw it over, right? " "Hmm. " "All things considered, this is the thing to do.

[55:48] " That's in the question. St. Thomas uses that example. in the question: whether the evils, if we suffer evil things, whether injuries in this world, or even sin, or ultimately damnation, doesn't make our guardian angel sad? And he says, no, and not, not simply speaking. Absolutely, they will our salvation. Yeah. But if we deserve damnation, then they yeah, throw them down. Mm hmm To hell with them.