Tertia Pars
67. The True Marriage of Mary and Joseph, and the Annunciation: Why It Was Announced and Why by Gabriel
Class of 2009-12-17
https://berquistcourse.com/course/theology/13-tertia-pars/067-the-true-marriage-of-mary-and-joseph-and-the-annunciation/

[0:00] Now I've got to read this second article. This is where Mary and Joseph. This is true marriage, right? Of course, one might think at first, you know, well, it isn't, though. Then why do we hold up the Holy Family as a model for us and so on? The second one goes forward. Thus, it seems that between Mary and Joseph there was not a true matrimony. We must have gone and take the other side, Thomas, huh?

[0:31] Mm-hmm. Totally. For Jerome says against Helvidius, that the guy, you know, he's, he's Thomas attacking him in the competing of theology too. For his he says he says his position about the virginity of Mary is abominable. it says He's being strong in the competing of the theology. This is the letter. I think this is the one. Well, I guess Helvidius. Maybe his Latin wasn't too good, or something.

[1:00] So Jerome, a Latinist, he said he sort of introduces his. He says so many people have wanted me to answer this guy, and he says I've refused because he's just such a nincompoop. I would want to dignify this guy with a response. Yeah. He says, "Well, at long last, people have prevailed upon me so that he who does not know how to speak will at last learn how to keep silence."

[1:24] Something. Then the school of Pythagoras. There, you you weren't allowed to talk for a long time until you'd studied a number of years. For Jerome says against Helvidius that Joseph was the custos, like the guardian, I guess, of Mary, more than what her husband, right?

[1:57] But if it were a true matrimony, true marriage, truly Joseph would be what? Yeah. Therefore, it seems that there was not a true marriage, right, between Mary and Joseph.

[2:18] I always find it interesting that word matrimonium because it seems to come from the mother, right? Yeah. That's what a Dominican priest, Father, Merkelbach his moral theology. He points that out. He says the sacrament takes its name after this because people get married principally, chiefly because of the beginning of children, which is chiefly the woman's duty, her office, right, her role. So that's why the sacrament is named after her.

[2:45] Whereas, whereas the inheritance is chiefly the work of the father, so we call that patrimony. So that takes its name, from the father, even though both contribute. to it. Same with motherhood, they both contribute, but he said the distinction of the names refers more to the role. of mother. Interesting, yeah.

[3:06] Moreover, on that of Matthew one. Jacob, engendered Joseph, the husband, you say, right of of Mary. Interesting that text. When he's reading it this morning, the priest is saying, and then Jesse begot David, you know, and so on. Then he got down to Joseph, he didn't say, and then Joseph begot. Jesus he didn't say that. No, he says, and then Jacob begot Joseph, and then Joseph was betrothed to Mary, or something like that.

[3:44] Of whom was born? It changes the wording there, right? No, you expect it to continue because it's all the way down. It could say he begot so and so, and so and so begot so and so and so, and then it doesn't say that when it gets down to Joseph, huh? Just not an oversight. And that's also, I think St. Thomas says it in his commentary when it begins about the birth of Christ.

[4:06] He said, "In the Latin Sic era, in this way was Christ born." Something, however, meaning to distinguish it from all the others. Well, again, Jerome says, huh? When you hear "virum right, huh? That's something that you hear that, especially a woman will say, "My man," you know, meeting her husband, right? Chrysostom says, "we don't always give the relative with the correct name, you know.

[4:45] Let there be no suspicion, right, of nuptials, right, huh? But remember, The customs. of scriptures that spouses, the male spouses, right, are called men, and the female called wives, right?

[5:09] But true matrimony is not brought about from what? A spousal, let's say, engagement, but from the very wedding, right? Therefore, it was not a true matrimony between the Blessed Virgin and what Joseph, right, huh?

[5:34] Moreover, Matthew one nineteen says Joseph, her man, since he was just right and did not want to what hand her over right, that is, in his house to cohabiting for a time, wish to dismiss her, occulta in a hidden way. that is, the to change the time of what nuptials as Eugippius expounds. Therefore, it seems that not yet the nuptials being celebrated, it was not yet a true what, yeah.

[6:22] Especially since after contracting matrimony it is not licit to dismiss the female spouse, right? But against all this, it's what Augustine says in the second book on the agreement of the evangelists, right? that it is not lawful, is it, that Joseph, on account of this, from the union of Mary, was separated. That the evangelist thinks this right when he says Joseph virum Mariae right husband of Mary that not from

[7:09] his what Embrace, right right but that the virgin brought forth Christ right in this example manifestly is insinuated to faithful spouses yeah that even observing a mutual consent right yeah observing continence yeah Right there can remain and be called a marriage right then without the what yeah not the union of sexes there. right. the Body. Mhm Okay.

[7:55] I I've always been kind of confused about that. What does the church say about that? Can a man and a woman marry and take a vow of chastity or something, or a vow of?

[8:05] I don't know. They have to intend to be married. If they have the intention up front, I don't know how it would be handled, but I know it can be done after they're married. Because let's say I know of a case at the town up in New Hampshire there, where usually the bishop it has to come from the bishop. I think it's not a question just the pastor.

[8:25] Um Didn't Therese's parents actually marry with the intent of not Yeah? That I don't know. Did they change their mind with the help of the priest. That I don't know. Of course, they might have they might have not manifested it to the priest when they got married. That I don't know. I don't know the detail there, but I know there is at least one case I know where there was a couple after after they were married and children.

[8:50] It may have they already had children, and it may have also been driven by the fact that I think he had he had sickness. He was ill, and so they decided in some way to accept that by consecrating themselves, saying, "Well, we don't want to have relations," and they did this over a period of time. The bishop discerned the whole thing. I I don't know all the details, but I know it was discerned for a time with the bishop, and then they they were able to do that.

[9:13] He later died. The husband died, so we don't know. But um, I mean, could they do this at the beginning of the marriage? That's a question. You know, without having intention to having children, it seems kind of strange to me. But I heard I heard something that has been about. I don't know. Yeah. It's uh. Yeah. I

[9:36] have to ask somebody who's a canonist who would have to know. Is that it's not exactly the same thing as people intending to have relations and not have kids because that's that's a I think something like an impediment. Yeah. Because they're not actually contracted to marry. Yeah, that that would invalidate the marriage. Yeah, that that would invalidate. But if somebody says no, we just don't want to have relations.

[9:56] we want to live in consecrated chastity or virginity, and I don't know that presents. I think I it would probably be something that would be slow to accept, only because of the you don't want two youthful people who are just sort of high high high high octane devotion at the beginning of their marriage, and then they're not going to keep it later. Say, well, don't don't take something on you that sounds great at the beginning, sounds real pious, but maybe beyond your strength.

[10:26] I don't know. I think it was certainly unusual. What is Augustine talking about here? You know. He says servata pari consensu continentia right? posse permanere vocari coniuges can still be called marriage right huh non per mixto corporis sexu right see I also had that friend that he was corresponding that Paulinus and Nola who I don't know if he did this from the beginning, but he was married but then they I know they then took a vow and they started a monastery somewhere and I guess they must have separated but they still lived near each other the couple, um, because Augustine was always writing Paulinus and Nola There's a bunch of writings of Paulinus and Nola.

[11:24] Yeah. It's very interesting Um, but I'm not too sure yeah fish that's right I don't know if they I don't know if they had um, normal relations before if they children or anything before if that was sometimes you read about desert desert fathers you run across these saints yeah especially like they'll have these stories about the monk is kind of content with himself and he asks the Lord you know Lord tell me someone that's a really example of perfection yeah yeah and the Lord sends him to some little hovel somewhere and there's this old poor couple there and anyway he's trying to figure out you know what's so special and the fellow tells him his life and now he was living with his wife but

[12:10] they had made a vow together and things like that kind of comes up okay let's see what Thomas says about this answer it should be said

[12:28] that matrimonium matrimony or coniugium, marriage right join with coniugium is joined with common yoke Well join with yeah is said to be true from this that it attains to its own what perfection now twofold is perfection of a thing its first perfection and its what second huh now the first perfection consists in the very form of the thing right from which it gets its species huh the second perfection consists in the the doing the operation of the thing through which a thing in some way attains to its end right huh

[13:25] now the form of matrimony consists in a certain indivisible joining together of what souls right through which one of the conjugal, one spouse spouse yeah is indivisibly uh held to observe faith to the other one

[13:52] But the end of matrimony is the offspring, the proles, to be generated and to be what educated, right? Now, to the first of these,

[14:13] when arise, right? To concubitum conjugalum now. Concubitum. How do they translate that? Conjugal intercourse. That's what they said there. Well, it doesn't seem to fit the text here, does it? Yeah, it doesn't seem to because I think I would, concubitum literally means sleeping together. I think it refers to yeah. Let me let me look this up to make sure.

[14:39] Lying together, sleeping together, intercourse. Yeah. Okay. Okay. To the second, to other doings of the man and the wife, right? By which they what help each other to nourishing the offspring, right? Because because the the first has to do with generanda, right, and then the second is educanda. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's what we're talking about for the end. Yeah. Yeah.

[15:11] Okay. Okay. So all that pertains to the second. Pertains to the end. Yeah. Okay. Thus, therefore, it should be said that as regards the first perfection, altogether is it true that the matrimony of the Virgin Mother of God and Joseph, huh? Yeah. It was a true marriage thing. Um, because both consented in the what conjugal bond union.

[15:42] But I see So that's just yeah okay But not however expressly in the carnal union, huh? Except under the condition, if it be pleasing to God, huh?

[15:54] Oh yeah. Whence the angel calls Mary the uh conj- the wife. Wife. I was gonna say, yeah. Yeah. of Joseph, saying to Joseph, do not fear to take Mary as your what conjugal spouse. Okay. Well, even even there, I think it might be more to the point here that it's not just to take her as your wife, but to take her your spouse. It's just a positive.

[16:25] It's the same Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Another. Form of the same name, Mary, your spouse. Thomas seems to be arguing from that text of the angel saying that, from the words of the angel saying that. Yeah. Okay. Which Augustine, expounding the book on on nuptial things and concupiscence is called a coniux, right? From the first faith of betrothal, right,

[16:53] which neither knew the concubitum to the carnal union, right Nor was was he going to know it Okay. Now, as regards the second perfection, which is to the act of matrimony, it refers to the carnal union through which offspring are generated. There was not. Yeah, that marriage was not consummated,

[17:26] right? Okay. Once Ambrose says upon Luke, it should not move you that Scripture calls Mary the what? Coniugium. For not a what? Taking away. Taking away. virginity, but a testification of. I'm not going to translate conjugium is it Okay I usually translate it as just marriage or spouse Yeah The celebration of. Marriage with a couple mating pair close connection Yeah Versus marriage Yeah The fact of a marriage is declared not to insinuate the loss of virginity, but to witness to the reality of the union.

[18:25] They had that matrimony, nevertheless, or had also the second perfection as regards the education of the offspring. That would be true too if you adopted someone, right? Not generated, right? You'd still have this part of the of the second perfection, right?

[19:00] Once Augustine says in the book on nuptials and Concupiscentia, every good of nuptials is fulfilled in those parents of Christ, right? Proles, fides, and sacramentum, right? For the offspring, the prole, we know is the Lord Jesus, right? Faith, because no adultery. Sacrament, because no what? Divorce. Was that the sacrament? Huh? Ah. There only the nuptial union was not a.

[20:10] I suppose if the man and woman married, huh, and and for some reason they couldn't reproduce, right? But they adopted a child, right, and educated that child. So you say that's a true marriage, right? You'd say that, right?

[20:29] Or say before they consummate the marriage, some kind of illness intervened, so they couldn't even fulfill their act. Yeah. Thing to say, but they could adopt children from the marriage. Yeah. So. Yeah. Yeah. Was it? Was it foreseen? No Impediment. Yeah. Well, he was well. Thomas is going to have to answer this. Yes, I think that. Okay. What about Jerome here?

[20:59] To the second, it should be said that Jerome takes their married tomb right from the consummation act of marriage, right? I remember that you know I don't want the early classes you know where the guy was talking about the girl, the Catholic girl, which is marrying a guy who's not really Catholic, and but they're married in the Catholic Church, right? And as they're coming back from the altar, right, he says to her, "Take a good look around."

[21:28] He says, "This is the last time you'll be in here." Oh boy! So at least the story was told to us. She marched back to the altar, right? And they and they put her in the custody of her brothers or something like that, right? And the you know at the marriage annulled. Wow! I see because he hears all students. Wow! They always stuck it. They always stuck it.

[21:52] The story, you know. Wow! Yeah, that's. Tama tauta kind of fortitude, fortitude, you know you might not have enough fortitude to do that. Yeah. Okay. But whatever happened to her? I don't know. I'd be more that story, you know. but, uh... Wow! She's a valiant woman. Hmm. But if the marriage has not been consummated, it could be you know annulled. I know a terrible story. I was first in here in the Baxter in Worcester there that this man who was teaching high school and he had married a woman right.

[22:26] He wanted children right, and then he found out that she was taking some kind of pill or something that prevented this thing. And she had no intention of having children. He was trying to get the marriage annulled, but it was very hard in those days to get a marriage annulled, even though she was willing to testify that she had no intention of having children, and even the priest who had married them, you know, was willing to testify that this was a situation, you know.

[22:51] And I went and saw a canon lawyer for him, you know, but so you got to have two witnesses, you know, beforehand, where she told her her intentions. Well, I got to get two witnesses. Yeah. It seems to be enough if the girl, you know, is willing to testify this fact, and even the priest who married them, you know, if they're lying, that's their that's that their their punishment, but but that don't think was that at all.

[23:14] I say the the presumption, I say, is always favor the bond, and in those days, maybe it was even excessively so because because once you open that door, and that's what's happened. I just read it in *the current issue of The Wanderer* that one of the sections there somebody wrote in written in and said his his marriage to his wife twice received an annulment for certain diocese twice from the same marriage.

[23:41] Because the first time it was decreed, it was null. He appealed it to the Roman Rota, which reversed the decision. Then she did it again. The tribunal found again it was null. He appealed it again to the Rota. They again reversed the decision. Then she was in the process of doing it a third time, and she died. He said, "So you got to be careful with these nulls.

[23:59] They're so easy now. It's sort of the other extreme. Yeah, the other extreme. " Because I remember that distinctly when I used to read, "Osservatore Romano" years ago. Once a year, the pope gives an address to the Rota, and almost at least years ago, it was almost always about marriage stuff. Yeah, John Paul was so emphatic every single year that he would talk about the presumption in favor of the bond.

[24:26] Oh, he was always, and I think because he knew the number of nulls that are going through. So you know, it's just like a paper mill. And but weird and strange times. This guy's so desperate for a child, he even tried to adopt one with his mother you know, but they would allow it. Kind of odd. I don't think it's a good idea, but but I mean, he really wanted children.

[24:48] There was no question he wanted children, and she had no intention of having children. Wow, terrible situation to be in, buddy. Yeah, they had two witnesses beforehand.

[25:01] She probably didn't tell two people that this was her intention before marriage. Yeah, she could have. I mean, probably. There's no way to produce those people I don't know. What happened to the guy finally? Okay.

[25:16] In the second, one, he answers the same way, that Jerome calls nuptias the nuptial concubitum, right? To the third, it should be said, as Chrysostom says upon Matthew, the Blessed Virgin was thus betrothed to Joseph, that she also what dwelt in his house, wasn't? House, yeah. Um.

[25:50] For just as in the one who conceives in the house of the man, right? It's understood to be a what? Marital conception. So also in the one who conceives outside the house, there is a suspected conjunction. And thus it would not have been sufficiently provided for the fame of the Blessed Virgin through this that she was betrothed, unless she also what dwelt in the house. Whence it says, and he did not wish to what hand her over.

[26:35] It means is more or better understood that she did not wish to defame her in public, and. Which would be understood about the what?

[26:49] Handing over in the house. Yeah. Once the evangelist joins or adds that he wished, in a hidden way, to dismiss her. This traduces her at least in announcing public exposure, disgrace, or reproval. Yeah. Nice little piece.

[27:16] She was reproved from her own house or something. Because although she was what dwelling in the house, on account of the first faith of betrothal, right, not yet had intervened the solemn celebration of the nuptials, on account of which also they had not yet what. Come together. Yeah. Whence Chrysostom says, huh?

[27:47] The evangelist does not say before she was what. Dwelling in the house. Of the spouse. Because she was already in the house. Yeah. For the custom was in the old times, I guess, many times in the house to have the ones who are betrothed. And therefore, also the angel says to Joseph, "Do not fear to take Mary as your wife." Huh? That is, do not fear to celebrate solemnly the nuptials, right?

[28:28] Although others say that she was not yet introduced in the house, but only betrothed, right? Huh? But the first, more, seems to be in agreement with the gospel, right? So I don't know what all the customs were in those days. No authority on those, but. I know

[28:50] in Shakespeare's time, betrothal was a much more serious thing. You, it was, it wasn't like our engagement was much more. It's almost equivalent to marriage, right? Could hardly be broken without serious

[29:03] consequences We have that little reading, and we have the announcement to the Blessed Virgin, which is coming up next, that makes the point historically. I guess that if someone was espoused or betrothed at that time, if she were one of them was unfaithful, it would be considered guilty of adultery before even before the solemn celebration. And if one of them died, the other would be considered a widow.

[29:31] Because it was it was that serious that was carried up until I mean nothing is serious. anymore. Marriage isn't serious, so who cares about it?

[29:48] So if they can see, after that kind of betrothal, they'll look upon it as seriously as they do, you know, after one of our engagements. But before marriage, we see it because it is not firmness yet. Isn't even firmness of marriage now? So you take a little break now. This is the last question on the Blessed Virgin.

[30:18] Then, we ought to consider about the Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin? We'd say Annunciation too, right? But this is not congenital. And about this, are asked four things. First, whether it was suitable to announce to her what was going to be what generated in her. Strange, you should ask that question. Second, through whom it was to be announced to her, right? Mm-hmm. And then, in what way it ought to be announced to her?

[30:57] And then about the order of an announcing, huh? Mm-hmm. So very thorough as usual, right, this Thomas here, huh? To the first one goes forward. Thus, it seems that it was not necessary to announce the Blessed Virgin what was going to come about in her. Strange that she asked asked this, huh? Um, for announcing, for this would seem to be necessary that one might have the consent of the Virgin, huh?

[31:41] But the consent does not seem to have been necessary because the conception of the Virgin was foreannounced in the prophecy of what? Incarnation. Yeah, which without our choice or consent, right, is completed as a certain gloss says, huh? Mm-hmm. Therefore, it was not necessary such an Annunciation to come about. How would she know that she's the one? Yeah. That would be a big surprise. What is going on?

[32:22] Moreover, the Blessed Virgin had the faith of what? Incarnation, without which no one is able to be what in the state of salvation. Because, as is said, Romans three twenty two, the justice of God is through the faith of Jesus Christ. But about that that someone believes with certitude, then it does not need to be further what instructed. Therefore, the Blessed to the Blessed Virgin, it was not necessary that to her be announced the Incarnation of the Son.

[33:01] How does she know she's going to be the one to whom he's going to come, huh? Moreover. As the just as the Blessed Virgin bodily conceived Christ, so each holy soul conceives Him spiritually. Whence the Apostle says, Galatians 4, My little ones and little sons whom again I what bring forth until Christ is formed in you. It's kind of model there the the assumptionists right. Don't formate the Christian movies.

[33:37] Oh I didn't know that Yeah Um. But to those who spiritually ought to conceive her, such a conception is not what announced to them right. Something didn't come down and say, you should conceive Him in your soul, Mr Berquist Therefore, neither to the Blessed Virgin should be announced that she would in her womb conceive the Son of God. That's interesting. These questions Thomas does. Ah, but again, this is what is had in Luke one thirty one.

[34:15] The angel said to her, "Behold, you shall conceive in your womb and bring forth the Son." The Annunciation is only in Luke, isn't it? It's not in Matthew, isn't it? Correct yeah Yeah There's a certain telling of the thing to Saint Joseph in Matthew's Gospel. I answer: It should be said that it was congruent, right, suitable, that to be to the Blessed Virgin be announced that she was going to what Christ.

[34:53] First, that there might be observed a suitable order of the union of the Son of God to the Virgin, huh? That she might her mind first be what instructed before she conceived in her what flesh. Whence Augustine says in the book on virginity, "More blessed is Mary in perceiving the faith of Christ than in conceiving the what." Yeah, and afterwards he says that the maternal nearness would in no way benefit Mary, unless more happily, right?

[35:36] She brought forth Christ in her heart than in her flesh. Strong words, that Augustine, huh? Didn't he say someplace Augustine that would not profit her to bring him forth in her body if she not brought him forth in her in her soul? He says something like that in effect. Yeah I think you're right Mm hmm Yeah Um.

[36:05] Second, that she could be a more certain witness of this sacrament when she was instructed about it divinely. Third, that voluntary gift of her service, right? She might offer to what God, to which she showed herself prompt, saying, "Behold, the handmaid of the Lord." That's a very good reason, isn't it?

[36:47] Third, that there might be shown a certain spiritual marriage between the Son of God and human nature, and therefore, through the Annunciation, is expected the consent of the Virgin in place of the whole human nature. That's very. That's what Saint Bernard picks up on. Saint Bernard picks up on in his famous sermon. Yeah, his famous sermon. He's got me doing the French thing. One of our brothers, I thought it was called Bernard.

[37:17] It was just Bernard and so forth, because French. So anyway, but you know, that's what his famous sermon is all about. We're waiting for you. We're waiting for you. It's very beautiful. Say yes, please say yes. Say yes for us all.

[37:36] They are all interesting reasons, I think. It's interesting. This book's on the road in pencil. The first paragraph two quotes from it It says LG fifty three must be Lumen Gentium for the first paragraph there LG fifty three, and then at the end the fourth one LG fifty five, so Lumen Gentium or something. You're working that end right now. Yeah, because it just says LG fifty five.

[38:26] Kind of beautifully, Thomas has ordered these four reasons, isn't it? The three and four are very similar there, right? But one is since the you know more personal, and then the last one is in the person of the whole human race,

[38:56] the whole human nature, you might say. What's so obvious about so many of these answers this question and the previous one, is that it really presupposes you actually believe the gospel? That is so striking because Yeah. nobody takes it seriously. This is all just sort of fantastic fables, and it's very nice, and pious, but you know. Oh yeah, I was listening to how he carried on on the way home.

[39:26] It was maybe last week or something, you know. Some guy, I guess he was Jewish, you know, but he carried on you know. and he's, saying I don't believe in this stuff, you know. And he was saying,

[39:38] you know, this thing about the dividing of the sea, you know, the Red Sea, you know, that thing. This is feeble, you know. And then this thing about this virgin birth. This is

[39:49] so. How he carried on with this? So you're not getting into the Christmas spirit, he says. You've got to say happy Christmas, you know, Merry Christmas, and so on. You know, if I got the guy to say Merry Christmas. Yeah. Well, that's what the famous line about the Jewish grandmother who. Her son was studying. her Jewish son was studying to be a rabbi and they're going through the scriptures.

[40:13] and Moses and the party. Well, it wasn't real. No, that was. he didn't really part the Red Sea. They crossed over in two inches of water. You know, it just kind of it dissipated. And she says, "Glory be to God. The whole Egyptian army drowned in two inches of water."

[40:29] I think Gershon's the other one, right? And she responds, "Were you there? Were you there?" That's the other Jewish grandmother. Mispronounced. You were there.

[40:48] Okay, so to the first, it should be said that the prophecy of predestination is what completed without our choice causing it, right? But not without our judgment consenting, right? Funny, the Latin there a bit too wide. Yeah. Was it standing for?

[41:17] To the second, it should be said that the Blessed Virgin had an express faith about the future incarnation, but since she was humble, she did not suspect such holy things about herself. She did not think, and therefore, about this, she ought to be instructed, right? She's going to be instructed in humility. Yeah.

[41:51] Now the third one is about. Well, how can we don't get this for our for our spiritual conceiving? To the third should be said

[42:02] that the spiritual conception of Christ, which is through faith, right, precedes the Annunciation, which is through the preaching of what faith, right? According as faith is ex audito from hearing.

[42:22] Not over, on account of this, does someone know for certain that he has what grace, right? But he knows that faith to be true, which he has what received. That's not addressing the answer. there. What's the objection again? The objection is saying that we don't get announced. Yeah, yeah. This guy's

[42:59] thinking the words of the angel there, right? You know that she's full of grace. He's saying, "Well, you have to be told that, you know, because one doesn't know for certain that he has grace, right? But one knows

[43:18] who has faith that he has certitude." Yeah. So I'm sure that Mary is the mother of God, but I'm not sure that I have grace or that I love God, right? You know, it says in Scripture that you don't know whether worthy of love or hate, right? Yeah.

[43:50] Okay. Now, how about to? To whom the annunciation should be made, right? To second one goes forward. Thus, it seems that the annunciation, the announcing, should not have been made to the Blessed Virgin through a what angel, right?

[44:19] For to the highest angels, revelation is made immediately by God, as says Dionysius in the seventh chapter of the celestial hierarchy, right? It's the first hierarchy, right? The seraphim see, the goodness of God, right? And so on, the cherubim and his disposition, so on. But the Mother of God is exalted above all the angels. Therefore, it seems that she ought to be immediately by God and announce the mystery of the incarnation and not through an angel.

[45:00] I think that's a good objection, isn't it? huh. Okay. More, if in this it was necessary to observe the common order, according as divine things are revealed to men through the what angels, right? Huh? Similar divine things ought to be deferred to the woman through the man. Hence the apostle says, "One Corinthians fourteen: Woman in church be silent, and if they wish to learn something, let them ask at the house their master's son, or husband's son."

[45:42] I thought she was talking to one of my colleagues, you know, and his wife answered the phone and said, "Can I speak to your lord and master?" She was quick. He says, "Just a minute, he's doing the dishes." She

[45:54] was quick. I was getting wrong sentences over there for some reason. And he could answer he could answer, I come among you as one who serves."

[46:08] Therefore, it seems that to the Blessed Virgin ought to be announced the mystery of incarnation to some man, especially because Joseph, her man, right, was instructed about this by the angel, right? So, and he had the following hierarchy he had a yes sir read

[46:30] Moreover no one is able to what suitably announce what he doesn't know, right? But the highest angels did not fully know the mystery of the incarnation. Whence Dionysius says in the seventh chapter of the celestial hierarchy that from their person is said to be understood the question which is placed in Isaiah chapter sixty-three. Who is this who comes up from Edom? Therefore, it seems that to no angel could be suitably announced the incarnation.

[47:08] Moreover, the greater thing should be announced through the greater, greater ones. But the mystery of the incarnation is the greatest among all those things which are announced to the angels to men, right? Therefore, it seems that if through some angel it ought to be announced, that it ought to be announced through someone of the highest order, right? Yeah. But Gabriel is not of the supreme order; he's not a seraphim, but he's of the order of the archangels, which is next to the last.

[47:43] Whence the church sings, Gabriel the archangel, we know you to be. You could probably say sent. I'm not sure. What? Breathing, being blown, or. Yeah.

[48:02] Oh, it has to do with addressing, speaking. Yeah. Speech converted into pronouncement. Prifatio. Yeah. Okay. Therefore, this annunciation ought not to be made through Gabriel the archangel. It wasn't suitably done, right? Huh. That's a good one. I think all these arguments. I'm convinced of them all. Something's wrong with this whole thing. So.

[48:33] It'll be nice just to have the rest of it cut off. You know, and get think about those form objections and say how the heck am I going to answer those?

[48:43] We never get through this material at all. This is. But against this is what is said, Luke one. Gabriel, the angel, was sent by God, and so on. There he just called an angel. Yeah. Against it should be said that it was suitable to the Mother of God to be announced through an angel the mystery of the divine incarnation. Why, for three reasons, huh? What a marvelous mind this guy is.

[49:14] First, that in this also would be observed the divine ordering, right? According to which, by the angels as a medium, divine things arrive at what men. So you might have order here, right? Whence Dionysius says in the fourth chapter of the Celestial Hierarchy that the

[49:45] divine mystery of the divinity of Christ, huh? Yeah, Father Bouray used to say he discovered another characteristic of God, dignity. It's great. Expelled him that one time.

[50:06] The angels first were what taught, right? Afterwards, through them to us, the grace of knowledge, what passed, huh? Thus, the most what divine Gabriel, Zachary taught the prophecy future from him. Mia, in what way?

[50:33] The mystery of the ineffable God's formation would be what? Yeah, so the hyparchia the article. The article. That's one of those Dionysian words. For the yeah. Divine order, you could say. Yeah.

[51:01] Secondly, this was suitable to the reparation to human reparation, which the future would be through Christ. Whence Bede says in a homily, "It's an apt beginning of the restoration of man that an angel by God is sent to a virgin, right? By birth to be consecrated to the divine.

[51:32] Why? Because the first, the beginning of the of the fall of man, right? The cause was the serpent, right? From the devil, right? Sent to the woman, deceiving her by the spirit of what pride, huh? Well, it's kind of like like

[52:04] it's a little bit like you know they talk about the fall began from woman, right? And then it proceeded to the man, right? And so the redemption ought to begin from the woman and be completed in the man, right? But then if you take the whole story, it begins the fall from the what the devil, right? Speaking to Eve, and then you know Eve, you know, suggesting to the man and getting him to go along with it, right?

[52:32] And so in the redemption, you've got to have an angel instead of the devil speaking to the woman Mary instead of Eve, and then yeah, that's what there should be something about the it was or somewhere in the fathers I don't remember where it. A bad angel deceived a foolish virgin. Yeah. Here you have the good angel instructing the wife. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just a verse.

[52:50] Now, it is the man Christ and his new Adam, or is it Joseph, or both? Well, Christ is a new Adam, isn't he? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when you're talking about the man, do you think of Christ here? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I started thinking that Joseph is a part of it. But I mean, it's kind of you know appropriate for redemption, right? That the one whose sin is redeemed, you know, is going to.

[53:38] I mean, the whole reason why Christ became or God became a man is that man might redeem himself, right? But he can't, you know, unless he's this very special man, right? But then, something was got to be redeemed too, and the fact that she began the thing, you know, then she should have some role before, right? And then the the the angel or the demon right began Maybe the angel should have some role, right?

[54:04] Something like that. The the the opposition, would be then you know, first Adam the head of the human race fell, and this is the proof of the virgin the new beginning, the new head of the human race. And third, because it was suitable to the virginity of the Mother of God, right? Hence, Jerome says in his sermon on the Assumption

[54:40] that a well is the angel sent to the virgin, right? Because it's always virginity is always next to her. The angels, right? The same thing.

[54:58] For in the flesh to live without the flesh, right, is not earthly life, but a heavenly life, right? So actually, he says to the Sadducees, right, whose wife is she going to be, right? And he said, well, they're like the angels in heaven, right? So they neither, you know marry or give in marriage. So That's what Saint Thomas too the question that in chapter nineteen of St.

[55:21] Matthew's Gospel, that's what I am thinking about here too. Is it why the Church, why John. Paul said that's that's sort of the most notable sign of consecrated life is consecrated chastity, above the others. Yeah. And uh, I was reading Saint. Matthew's commentary, St. Thomas' commentary on Matthew. When they asked him about marriage, can we divorce for any reason? He says, well, just to ask the question already implies a corrupt mind.

[55:48] They've already got a bad attitude, but then that they add for any reason, they're even worse than that because they just they want for any reason that they're already sort of cultivating this kind of vice. Well, in these paintings of Annunciation, there you have the the lily there, right? Mhm. And uh, this one I have we have in the house you know, I was pointing all that out, you know.

[56:10] Yeah, yeah. But it's kind of fits in with this third reason, you know. Yeah, yeah. It kind of emphasizes that the painting picks it up.

[56:19] These are very interesting, these reasons here. Yeah. Give Mara's talk on the feast of the Annunciation. I want to hear your sermon on the feast of the Annunciation. Yeah.

[56:29] Um, that's also, you know, is isn't that kind of the feast of the incarnation because that's when it becomes incarnate, right? The time of the you know fiat.

[56:41] Not, I mean, we think of you know Christmas, but it's not really. That's that's the the birth of Christ, right? But not not the incarnation itself. That's nine months after the. So it's March twenty fifth, yeah. Yes, you celebrate the we we celebrate the twenty we have it on March twenty fifth. Although it's not, I don't think it's as big a feast on March twenty fifth as it is for us.

[57:05] We have one. We have we have six Sundays, six weeks of Advent, and the second week is the Annunciation to Mary. We celebrate the announcements, all the announcements: announcement of Zachariah, birth of John, then announcement of Mary, then there is the visitation, then there is birth of John the Baptist. And this week we have revelation of Saint Joseph, his announcement. Then this coming Sunday is genealogy Sunday, so we read them all.

[57:29] Genealogy Sunday. I used I got that a couple of years in a row, and it's that's a tough one to read. We have a beautiful custom with my daughter Maria and her friend Elizabeth. You know, who's married to my my son. You know, but if they find a nice picture, you know, of the visitation, you know, Maria Elizabeth greeting each other, you know, and they'll send it to each other.

[57:50] You know, it's it's kind of a nice thing because just happen to have those names, Mary and Elizabeth. But they don't happen to me. Yeah. Okay. Now we see the answers now to the things here.

[58:11] To the first, therefore, it should be said that the Mother of God is above the angels as regards the dignity to which she was divinely chosen. But as far as in the status of the present life, she is below the angels, huh?

[58:33] Because even Christ, this very interesting, even Christ, by reason of his suffering life, right, is a little bit less than from the angels, right? That famous Psalm eight, doesn't it? Psalm eight, according to me. Yeah. And because Christ was both what, yeah, viator and comprehensor,

[59:02] as regards a knowledge of the divine things, he did not need to be instructed by the angels, right? Um. But the Mother of God was not yet in the status of the what those who see God face to face, right? And therefore, about the divine conception, she had to be instructed by the angels, right? Now, like that, well, nice to get that. I mean, Christ even in some sense was less than the angels, right, in his status.

[59:33] but more so, than Mary. Quite marvelous, those angels, huh? Yeah. Um. What about not having a man, right? Okay. All right. Now. To the second, should be said as Augustine says in his sermon on the Assumption. The Blessed Virgin Mary, right? Huh. Is what accepted from right, a tributor, exception to, we might say, huh? The true what estimate from some general things, right?

[1:00:20] Because she neither what multiply conception children yeah. Nor was she under what her man her husband yeah a father who from her most integral viscera, right yeah from the Holy Spirit received Christ huh.

[1:00:49] And therefore she ought not by means of the man to be instructed about the mystery of incarnation, but by means of the angel. Since she didn't depend on him for the child. Yeah, yeah. An account of which also she before was instructed in Joseph huh, where she was instructed before the conception, Joseph, however, what after huh? He's the last to know, right. Yeah. That's what Last one to know.

[1:01:20] That's what Well, it's- it's. Thomas gives. I know in his commentary Matthew he says about somewhere that the more a man is removed from the senses, the more that the angels can reveal things to him in sleep. But then they say, yeah, but the virgin was instructed while she was awake. Yeah. What's that supposed to mean? You know. And he said, well, it would have been harder for her to believe.

[1:01:45] Um, she needed some greater testimony, might say, some greater sign to this marvel, because she was the first. Nobody had even seen her. There's no evidence of it at all. Whereas Joseph at least had the evidence. She was she was in front of him, she was pregnant. So he had something to go on Yeah. He was the father, and she was still before. So he had some other sensible instruction.

[1:02:09] Now the third one, huh? About the angels not knowing themselves, huh? The mystery. To the third, should be said that just as from the authority of a Dionysius brought in, the angels knew the mystery of the incarnation, right? Huh. But nevertheless, they asked, right, desiring to know more perfectly from Christ the reasons of this mystery. It's interesting, huh? They're they're students there, right? Yeah. Which are incomprehensible, right?

[1:02:47] These reasons to every created what intellect, right? Wow. Um, whence Maximus says. that whether the angels knew the future incarnation, well, not not is not necessary to what?

[1:03:06] To be in doubt about it, huh? In which in which way? There can be no. The English is there can be no question that the angels knew that the incarnation was to take place. Yeah, don't call it into question. But there was hidden from them the what? The unsearchable conception of the Lord, and the mode in which way the whole in the what?

[1:03:42] Whole in the together. I don't know if that refers to the Virgin. Genitoria. All The whole remained in all. In all. And then Well, it's in the ver the little Yeah room of the virgin it's at of the Virgin. the womb Well, anyway, investigat means not able to investigate it, right? Right. The conception of the Lord, right?

[1:04:09] So he says he knew it, but that they didn't know all the reasons for it, right? All the reasons of it. Yeah, they give.

[1:04:22] It was not given to them to trace the manner of our Lord's conception, nor how it was that he remained whole in the womb, whole throughout the universe, and was whole in the narrow bowels of the virgin. Yeah. The universe could not contain. He was contained there. How did that happen? Yeah. Okay. Now, what about him not being the highest angel here? To the fourth, then it should be said that some say that Gabriel was of the highest order, on account of what Gregory says, huh?

[1:05:03] That the highest angel to come was thought worthy, right? Who would announce the highest thing of all, right? But from this is not had that he was the highest among all the orders, but with respect to the angels, for he was of the order of the what, archangels, huh? Whence also the church names him an archangel, and Gregory himself says in the homily about the hundred sheep that the archangels are called those who announce the highest things, right?

[1:05:46] But it is sufficiently believable that he was the highest in the order of the what, archangels, because he can announce the highest things, right?

[1:05:59] And as Gregory says, this name fits his office, right? For Gabriel names the power of God, right? So Michael is what who is like God? Raphael is what the medicine of God. Yeah. I guess the EL has a reference to God, right? The other part, some reference to God, huh? For he is named the fortitude of God, right?

[1:06:32] For through the fortitude of God was to be announced the Lord of powers, right? And potency in battle, right? He had come to fighting the aerial powers there, the demons.

[1:06:56] So we've got time for a little one here Stop. Okay. Now next.