Tertia Pars
112. The Descent into Hell: Why Christ Went Down and Which Hell He Entered (Question 52, Articles 1–2)
Class of 2010-10-28
https://berquistcourse.com/course/theology/13-tertia-pars/112-the-descent-into-hell-why-christ-went-down-and-which-hell/

[0:00] Now we got the descent of Christ to the hell, as they say in the scripture, and the creed of the end, sent to hell. Um. So you have a separate question on what his body did, or what happened to his body, and what his soul, you know. Then we got time, right? Then when I consider about the descent of Christ to hell and about this eight things are asked, right?

[0:38] I gave a talk a long time on the descent of Christ, called the Forgotten Article, right? Yeah. Because in the Nicene Creed you don't have it. Yeah. You have the Apostles' Creed, but not the Nicene Creed, of course. So you say the Nicene Creed, but people don't think about that so much. I call it the Forgotten Article. Just

[0:59] what is the Forgotten Article? And they clicked the Article? And about this eight things are asked, right? First, was it suitable for Christ to descend to the infernal regions, right?

[1:21] Secondly, in what infernal region he descended, right? Whether he was as a whole in what The inferno, right? Whether he contracted some delay there, huh?

[1:45] Whether he liberated the holy fathers from what? Yeah. Whether he liberated from the inferno the damned, huh? Whether he liberated the boys who died in what original sin, huh?

[2:11] And whether he liberated men from what purgatory, huh? Okay. So, first article. To the first one proceeds thus. It seems that it was not suitable for Christ to descend to what inferno, right? Huh?

[2:47] For Augustine says in the Epistle to Evodius, "Nor those what very infernal regions, Uspiam. What does that mean, Uspiam Translated, nor can I find anywhere in the Scriptures how mentioned as something good. Yeah, to be called a good place, right? Huh? But the soul of Christ does not descend to something bad

[3:23] because. Neither do these souls of the just descend to something what bad, right? Therefore, it does not seem suitable that Christ would descend to to hell, right? Christ doesn't talk about puzzle by his descent to hell, but what does that mean? Used to be hell, right? Used to be the old standby of the you know four last things, right? Death, judgment, heaven, hell. You know that was kind of the the fear of God in people.

[3:58] Moreover, to descend to the infernal regions cannot belong to Christ according to his divine nature, which is entirely what immobile. But it can only belong to him according to his assumed nature. But those things which Christ did or underwent in his assumed or taken on nature are ordered to human salvation. To which it does not seem to be necessary that Christ would descend, right, to to hell, right?

[4:34] Because through his passion, which he sustained in this world, he liberated us from guilt and punishment. Therefore, it was not suitable that Christ descend to what to hell.

[4:50] Moreover, through the death of Christ, his soul was separated from his body, which was placed in the sepulcher. But does not seem, however, that according to his soul alone, he would descend to hell, right? Because the soul, since it is bodyless, huh, incorporeal, does not seem that it can move what locally, huh, place, huh? For it just belongs to bodies to move in place, huh?

[5:31] But the descent implies a bodily motion. Therefore, it was not suitable that Christ descend to hell, right? But against this is what is said in the symbol, and this is of course of the apostles, right? He descended to hell, and the apostle says, Ephesians four, chapter four, verse nine. Who is it that ascended but

[6:07] Because you descended first to the lower parts of the earth, right, and the gospel says to hell, right? Okay, so why did he go down there?

[6:22] A good question, Thomas. I answer: It should be said that it was suitable for Christ to descend to hell, right? First, because He Himself came to what? Carry our what? Punishment, that He might what? Free us from this punishment, right? According to that of the prophet Isaiah, truly He bore our what? Infirmities and our sorrows He carried. But from sin man incurs not only the death of the body, but also his descent to what?

[7:05] Hell. And therefore, just as it was suitable for Him to die that He might liberate us from death, so it was suitable that He would descend to the lower regions, that He might liberate us

[7:25] from this descent to hell, right? Whence it is said in the book of the prophet Hosea, "I will be your death." Oh, death, huh? I will be what?

[7:40] Your bite, huh? Morsels, right? A morsel. I guess'cause He doesn't take the damn job, He takes the. That's right. He bites it. Secondly, because it was suitable that what? The devil, being overcome through his passion, he would what?

[8:05] Yeah, who were detained in in hell, right? According to that of the prophet Zachary nine, you also, in the blood of your what? Testament, have what? Sent, I guess, out those chained in the lake, huh?

[8:25] And in Colossians two, taking away, I suppose, right? The princes and the powers, He brought them forth confidently. Third, that He might show His power in on the earth living and dying, so also He might show His power in what? In hell, by visiting it and by what? Illuminating it, huh? Whence it is said in Psalm twenty three, "Lift up your gates," or what? Princes, your gates?

[9:07] Lift up your gates, princes. That is princes of hell, right? Huh? Take away your power, which. Up till now, you have what detained men in in hell, right? And thus, in the name of Jesus, every knee might be bent, not only that of celestial, but also that of infernal, as is said in Philippians two.

[9:49] To the first, therefore, should be said that the name of hell sounds in the evil of what punishment, right? Huh? Not, over, in the evil of what guilt. Huh? Whence it was appropriate for Christ to descend to hell, not because he was what in debt to punishment or owed punishment, but that he might liberate those who were what subject to punishment, huh?

[10:20] And the punishment here, is especially being denied the vision of. God right, which could not be overcome until he had died on the cross. To the second should be said that the passion of Christ was a universal cause of human salvation for both the living and the dead. But the universal cause should be applied to singular effects through something what special. Whence, just as the power of the passion of Christ is applied to those living through the sacraments, configuring us to the passion of Christ, right?

[11:00] So also is applied to the dead through the descent of Christ to what to hell, right? On account of which it is significantly said in Zechariah 9 that he brought out those what chains out of the lake In in the lake, right? He brought them out in the blood of his testament. That is through the power of his what passion, right? So what the sacraments, in a sense, do for us, the living.

[11:34] You don't you don't have sacraments for the dead, do you? But there has to be something you know whereby the universal causality of Christ's death on the cross is applied to those who are already dead at this time, right? Had died before Christ became man, or died before Christ died on the cross, right? And that was done by his what descent into hell, right? Okay, okay. So that makes makes sense, huh?

[12:09] Now, doesn't go into the whole explanation number three, right? But the third should be said that the soul of Christ does not go down to hell by that kind of motion by which bodies are moved, right? But by that kind of motion by which angels are moved. Okay, then we bring you back to the first part, right? So the angel is what said to move because he applies his power to something that it was not applied to before, right?

[12:38] So Christ is applying his what power to those who are in hell, right? Okay. So take another article, yeah. Okay. Um. Whether Christ descended also to the hell of the damned, right? Okay. Now, to the second, one goes forward. Thus, it seemed that Christ descended also to the hell of the what damned, huh?

[13:23] And notice, go back to it when he first enumerates the articles. In quem infernum descendit? In what hell he descended? Right? Huh? And so, Tom's going to make a distinction between the hell in which the prophets and so on are, right, from that of the damned. Okay.

[13:45] The second one proceeds thus: It seems that Christ descended even, or also, to the what, hell of the damned. For it is said from the mouth of divine wisdom in Ecclesiasticus chapter twenty-four, "I will penetrate all the lower parts of the earth." But among the lower parts of the earth are counted also the hell of the damned, according to that of Psalm sixty-two. They will go into the lower parts of the earth.

[14:20] Therefore, Christ, who is the wisdom of God, descended also to the hell of the what, damned. Moreover, Acts two twenty-four, Peter says that God raised up Christ. Huh. The pains of hell being what dissolved? Right. According as it was impossible for it to what, um, to be held by it? Right. But there are no pains in the hell of the fathers, right?

[15:04] Nor also in the hell of the what boys who are not punished by the pain of sense on account of actual sin, but only the pain of what Loss? Loss on account of the original sin. Therefore, Christ descended to the what hell of the damned, or also in purgatory, where men are punished by the pain of sins for actual what sins? Huh.

[15:41] Moreover, a lot of objections here. Five of them. Moreover, when Peter three, it is said that Christ to those who were contained in prison, right? Huh. He came. He preached in the spirit, right? Huh.

[16:03] To those who were incredulous at some time, right? Which, as Athanasius says in the Epistle to Epictetus, is understood about the descent of Christ to to hell.

[16:20] For it is said that the body of Christ was placed in the sepulchre when He what went to preach to those who were in the guardian of the

[16:36] two spirits, as Peter says. But it stands that the those who were not believing are in the hell of the damned, right? Therefore, Christ descended to the hell of the damned. See, He went to preach down there to the incredulous, right? They'd be the damned. So.

[17:12] Moreover, Augustine says in the Epistle to Evodius, in illum Abrahae sinum Christ into that what bosom of Abraham, huh? Christ dead came. Second Scripture would have said, not naming the what,

[17:41] and its sorrows, right? I wonder if anyone would dare to what assert that he what descended to hell. But because evident testimonies both commemorate hell and its sorrows,

[18:09] no cause occurs wherefore one believes that the Savior came there except that he might what free them from these sorrows, right? But the place of sorrows is the hell of the damned. Therefore, Christ descended to the what hell of the damned, right?

[18:40] Was there sorrow there for the the fathers or are the prophets there not seeing God as He is? We'll see what Thomas does. Moreover, as Augustine says in a certain sermon about the passion, Christ descending to what hell, all those just ones who were what restricted or virginal sin He absolved, right?

[19:13] But among those was also Job, who of himself says in the most deepest parts of hell. All mine have descended. Therefore, Christ, as far as the most depths of the hell, descended, right?

[19:34] Now, against this is said about the hell of the damned, Job chapter ten. Before I what go and do not return to the dark earth and covered with the cloud of death, right? That's only part of the translation, yes, et cetera. But there is no coming together of light to darkness, as is said in Second Corinthians. I don't know. Therefore, Christ, who is light, did not descend to the what hell of the damned, huh? I answer.

[20:25] It should be said that in two ways is said something to be what somewhere yeah. In one way through its effect, and in this way Christ in each hell descended right, but in different ways. For in the hell of the damned, he had this effect that descending to hell, he what he refuted, you might say, right? Huh? Um. of their incredulity and their what malice, right? Yeah.

[21:07] Okay. A breeder, you might say, or something like that. Um. To those other who were detained in purgatory, he gave them the hope of what of obtaining glory, right?

[21:23] Um. But to the holy fathers, huh? Who for original sin alone were detained in hell, he poured in the light of eternal glory. See when when Thomas, or when we in fact, when we divide the the kind of the six chief articles of faith about the humanity of Christ, huh? There's two ways of dividing this,

[21:56] and one way you have that the eighth psalm there, you know, or you might take the psalm the the articles of descent, right, and then the articles of ascent. And so there's three articles of descent, right? You know, he took on the nature of a slave, right? Like he says in Philippians, I guess Saint Paul, right? Okay, and then you have what his death, passion, and death, right?

[22:24] And then his descent into hell, right? He who lowers himself should be exalted, right? And so contrary to his death is his what his resurrection, and contrary to his descent into hell is his ascension, and then kind of his second coming, right? Huh? Which is in glory, kind of for the first coming, which is in what humility, right? Huh? Okay. But Thomas says explicitly, you know, that in a way the resurrection is the reward of the death, right?

[22:58] And the ascension of the what descent, right? Then that's one way of dividing them. And there you divide them into two, and each of the two into what three? The three articles of descent and three articles of the sense of ascent, right? Then okay. But then in in the Te Deum you have another way of of dividing the articles of faith, huh? And then you have

[23:24] his you divide into three, right? And then the first one is the what incarnation, right? And then in the middle you have the main thing he came for, which is his death on the cross, right? And then he gives us the what effect of that, huh? And that's in the resurrection, the descent into hell, the resurrection, and the ascension. And then there's the what second coming, what we're going to be judged and so on, right?

[23:59] So you divide it into those three, right? And the middle is divided into those four, but you take the the meritorious death on the cross, and then what he gives us, right? And then he goes back to the old division of the Greeks: the good of the soul, the good of the body, exterior good, right? So he goes to the descent to hell; he gives them the beatific vision, the fathers, right?

[24:22] That's good of the soul. The resurrection brings in the good of the body, and then the ascension of the good of a good place, which is exterior good, right? So it's kind of beautiful the way it's presented in that way, huh?

[24:41] Now in this one, what's the what are the kind of levels that you there's the hell of the dead, there's the hell where the fathers are, and there's purgatory. Yeah, yeah. So so he's giving the the fathers who are only detained by original sin, right? Since he's dead on the cross, he can give them now the glory, right? So the good of their soul, right, is obviously the beatific vision, right?

[25:05] And to those who in purgatory, he gives them the hope of of the glory, right? So that that's in a way the good of the soul too, right? Not as a completely good, obviously, as as the vision itself, but that you will now eventually, you know, what you've been purgatory for, you know, how long it takes. I was quoting your father standing in the priest's dead marriage, so I went into my room, saying to my mother, "You know, never stop praying for my father after he died.

[25:28] You know, because we don't know when someone is what out of yeah out of purgatory or in heaven, you know, but you never know. So I mean, this is some special revelation, which is unlikely to take place, you know. So he's always continued to pray for this person, right? Huh? And I suppose if the person is in heaven, your prayers go somewhere else and somebody else is benefit, I suppose, right?

[25:50] So it's not lost in such a praying for someone's already in heaven. And so so I mean so there's this hope, you know, that is getting there, right?

[26:02] Okay. So to the holy fathers, then he says, who were detained in hell for only original sin, right? Didn't have any actual sins that aren't forgiven, right? He he what poured in the light of eternal glory, right? But to those who were detained in purgatory, he he gave the hope of what. Of obtaining eventually glory, right? But now he says, in which has the effect of

[26:40] refuting, you might say, or upbraiding the incredulity and malice of those who are in the hell of the damned, right? So it has an effect upon all three, right? But in another way, something is said to be somewhere through its essence, right? And in this way, the soul of Christ descended onto that place of hell in which the just were detained, right? That those who he through his what

[27:12] grace and visited inward way, right, according to divinity, also according to his soul, he visited and in what place? you can speak of as a place.

[27:27] Thus, in one part of hell existing, his effect in some way is derived to all the parts of hell, right? That's the first thing he spoke about.

[27:42] Just as in one place of the earth suffering, he liberated the whole world by his what action, right? So, in a sense, in one hell, the hell of the fathers, I guess it's not clear for me that includes the purgatory too. It might, but but the hell the saved, right? Then

[28:09] the effect of his being there extended even to the what hell of the damned, right? I don't think very pleasantly. To the first, therefore, it should be said that Christ, who is the wisdom of God, penetrated all the lower parts of the earth, but not in a what local way, right? According to his soul, by running around all of them, right? But by by extending the effect of his power in some way to all, right?

[28:51] But thus that only he what illuminated or enlightened only the just, right? And then follows for it follows, and I will enlighten all those hoping in the what the Lord.

[29:08] Now, what about the sorrow here, though? To the second, should be said that twofold is what sadness, huh? One is from the passion of punishment, which men suffer for actual sin. According to that of Psalm seventeen. The sorrows of hell surrounded me, right? Huh? Another is the sorrow of the delay of what? Glory, huh? According to that of Proverbs thirteen, that hope which is deferred, right, afflicts the what?

[29:48] Soul, right? Huh? Which sorrow also the holy fathers suffered in what? So there was a certain sadness there, right? Huh? Okay. To which, signifying Augustine in his sermon about the passion, says that with a what? A prayer, a a yeah. that see my brother's funeral there the lacrimosa you know the lacrimabile. obsecration that means it has a sense of, of beseeching, right? They prayed Christ with a what?

[30:34] Tearful, yeah. Entreaty, yeah. Yeah, like mabule. He says both sorrows Christ resolved, resolved descending to hell, but in other ways, right? For the punishments of sorrows of punishments, untied, preserving by preserving from them, just as the doctor unties sickness, which he preserves from which he preserves someone through medicine, right?

[31:19] But the sorrows caused from the delay of glory actually he solved, giving what? Glory, right? Bestowing glory upon them. What about this text from Peter, right? About going down to the incredulous. To the third, it should be said that that which there Peter says, by some is referred to the descent of Christ to hell. Thus expounding that word to those who were contained in prison, right? That is in hell.

[32:00] In spirit, that is according to the soul, Christ coming preached, who were incredulous, some time, right? Once, as Augustine says in the third book, that just as those who are on earth are evangelized, right? So also those who are in hell. Not that the what he would convert the incredulous to faith, right? But that he might what? Put to shame or refute, refute in a sense their infidelity, right?

[32:47] Because that predication in no other way can be understood than as a manifestation of his divinity, which he manifested to the infernals through a virtuous or powerful descent of Christ to hell.

[33:11] Now Augustine, however, better expounds this in the Epistle to Evodius that he refers not to the descent of Christ to the what? Hell, but to the operations divinity which he exercised in the beginning of the world. That the sense would be that to those who were contained in prison, that is to say, those living in a mortal body, which is as were a kind of prison of the soul, like Socrates thought.

[33:42] Um, by the power or the spirit of his divinity coming, he preached through internal inspirations, right, and also exterior admonitions through the mouths of the just. To those he preached who were what, at some time unbelieving, right

[34:04] now. To Noah, what? Not believing in the preaching of Noah. When is they expected the patience of God to which should be deferred the punishment of the flood. Once is joined to that in the days of Noah when the ark was what fabricated, huh? Okay, so you have to study those texts maybe one scripture to see the fullness of this discourse here, right? But Augustine he says melius exponit, right

[34:48] now. To the fourth, it should be said that the womb of Abraham, right now, can can be considered according to two things. One way, according to that rest which was there from sensible pain, and as this and as required to this, there does not belong to it neither the name of hell nor that there are there some sorrows. Another way can be considered as regards the privation or lack of the glory hoped for, and according to this, it does have the notion of hell and of sorrow.

[35:29] Pain, and therefore, now is said the womb of Abraham that rest of the blessed is not overcalled hell, nor are they said now to be in the womb of Abraham what sorrows are there? And Shakespeare is what play there, according to the womb of what Arthur, right? Talking about about Falstaff dying, right? These little corruption in the in the English mind. Not that Shakespeare thinks that, you know.

[36:06] I mean, instead the the bosom of Abraham, they go into the bosom of Arthur, you know. King Arthur. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty little touches that Shakespeare had.

[36:21] It's like when the lambater comes in when Falstaff is dying, you know, and he cries, "See, I don't think there's any reason yet to, you know, worry him about, you know, penance or anything like that." You know, you know, wasn't time for that yet. You know, kind of thoughtless minds these people have. You know, but Shakespeare, you know, he's very gentle with the common people. You know, and you know, presents them without, without, you know, holding what they can tell you, but just as they are.

[36:50] You see what Shakespeare understood women better than they understand themselves, right? Although, although in in *Symbaline* he says, "Who is can read a woman? Who is? Who is it that can read a woman? Can understand a woman?"

[37:18] So *Symbaline* says at the end when he cries, "The true evil of the queen is brought out. The true evil nature of the queen is brought out." If. Can we look again at this response? Because I didn't quite understand. A tertiary, you mean? The fourth one. Oh, okay. But that's kind of the thing that's in the body, the text there, right? About the use of the word.

[37:41] Basmalah. Hell and sorrow, right? Because it's the sorrow that you're being punished, right? And there's a different kind of sorrow there, just when what you hope for and expect is is what delayed, right? So there was that kind of sorrow in in the in the fathers, right, or in in the prophets, right? Yeah, but what I was, I suppose, I was more interested in his understanding of the bosom of Abraham.

[38:14] Well, then the bosom of Abraham could be taken in either one of those senses, right? Yeah, but that's I'm confused on. You're in the bosom of Abraham when you're you're saved, and then when you possess actually the vision of God, right? Yeah. In one case, there would be no sorrow at all, right? You possess the the vision of God, right? Yeah. But when you're wanting your body back, though, you know, there's a little bit of you know, Augustine tells you you're not you know perfectly happy until you get your body back again.

[38:48] Yeah. Even though you have the substance of it in the vision of God, right? But Thomas says you'd be more perfectly having your body back. You'd be more whole, and therefore you'd be even more blessed. What I'm trying to figure out is he

[39:06] gives these two ways, and then he ends with the thing about the the rest of the. Yeah. Which basically, well, when Christ talks about about the the man who's in the who died is Lazarus, or is Lazarus, but the man, the rich man, yeah, yeah, Lazarus is in the bosom of Abraham. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if he's speaking, you know, at that time, right, where he's not yet died on the cross, right, then he's not in the bosom of Abraham in the sense that he sees God as he is, right?

[39:38] Right. Yeah. But he's not suffering anymore, right? Any punishment? Oh, okay. I see. I see. Then you might use the term the bosom of Abraham, you know, for being in the bosom of Abraham for being in the state of seeing God too, right? Yeah. Every different uses the word, right? Yep. Okay.

[40:03] Um, I see. Yeah, that's why he says in the last sentence, "where he said and therefore now he said." Yeah. means now as in after the uh after the Yeah, now we call it the bosom of Abraham. That rest is blessed, huh? Okay. But not, but not now would it be called in fairness, right? Yeah. Nor now it is said to be in the womb of Abraham's sorrows.

[41:11] In a sense, to some extent, the vision of God is is kind of the reward of of faith, you know. Abraham is our father in faith, huh? So maybe this is one reason why you speak of being in the bosom of Abraham, right?

[41:32] Now the fifth one is about the most profound parts of hell, right? In Thomas's quoting Gregory, right? To the fifth, it should be said that as Gregory there says, those what?

[41:58] Higher regions of hell, which might be the what? Yeah, he calls the what most deep hell, right? For if, as regards to the height of the heaven, right, huh? That dark air, right, is hell, right?

[42:23] As regards that same altitude of the air, the earth which lies below, and is understood to be hell, can be what profound? There's a question about the thing there, right? You might think that the most profound parts of hell is where, it, like Donnie's got, you know, the hell Satan down there in the in the ice there, you know, bottom of hell. But I don't think he's taken that sense necessarily in this sense, right?

[42:55] Oh. Simply because they're so far distant from the heaven, right? All even the higher parts, you know, which are the hell of the fathers, right, huh? The hell of the prophets, huh? That might be called profound, right? Most profound hell. At least when Gregory takes it there, so he's got to stop there, I guess, huh? Okay.