Wisdom (Metaphysics 2005)
6. Metaphysics I, Proemium: Liberal Knowledge, Not a Human Possession, the Knowledge of God
Class of 2005-01-13
https://berquistcourse.com/course/philosophy/7a-wisdom-2005/006-metaphysics-i-proemium-liberal-knowledge-not-a-human-possession/

[0:00] So the first two paragraphs, which are on the bottom of page four, are concerned with showing now this first point. that this is looking now.

[0:13] Now, when we apply the word "liberal" in Latin, which comes from "liber," meaning free. it's by an analogy, as Aristotle points out here, that we speak of some knowledge as being liberal and some knowledge as being what servile or slavish, you might say. Okay. And I

[0:40] realize that in the ancient world, and even our world up until very recently, you always had free men and what slaves, right? Whether we should have free men and slaves is another question. That's for political philosophy. Okay. But everybody is familiar with the difference between a free man and a slave, right? And the fundamental difference is that the slave exists for the sake of the free man to serve him, right?

[1:16] Why the free man exists what for his own sake, okay? Well, then by analogy, they carried over the word "servile" and "liberal" from human beings to our knowledge, right? And a knowledge that is for its own sake, they called what liberal or free.

[1:42] And a knowledge that was not for its own sake, but for the sake of something else, like a servant of that other thing, right? They called servile or slavish. Okay.

[1:57] Now this is basically an analogy, right? It might be, of course, that the men who were slaves in society would be may be engaged in servile knowledge, right? And the men who were

[2:13] free might be more involved in liberal knowledge, right? But that's not the main point, right? The main point is the analogy, right? Why do you call some knowledge liberal and some knowledge servile? Right. Well, it's because we stood in likeness, huh? In proportional likeness to the difference between a free man and a slave, right? That the slave is not for his own sake, but for the sake of his master, right?

[2:44] The master, the free man, is for his own sake, right? So, by analogy to that difference among human beings and all the ancient societies,

[2:55] they saw a difference between a knowledge that's for its own sake and a knowledge that's for the sake of making or doing something. And so they called the former knowledge liberal, and the latter what servile, right? Okay.

[3:14] So, what liberal education meant to the Greeks or to the Latins, medievals, is a knowledge that's for its own sake, right? A knowledge that's just for the good of the mind itself.

[3:30] By servile knowledge is not a knowledge that's for the good of the mind, but for the good of your body or your possessions, your house, your car, or whatever else it might be, huh? But not for the good of your what mind, right? Not something for the sake of knowing.

[3:50] So you see how that's going to follow from the fact that wisdom is looking knowledge, right, and not practical. The It's what liberal knowledge and not what servile knowledge.

[4:08] And Aristotle goes so far as to say, in some sense, wisdom is the only knowledge that is fully liberal, because the lesser things, even in looking philosophy, we study for the sake of knowing the higher things. So I mentioned how Thomas says, you know, I study the body so I can study the soul, and I study the soul so I can study the angels, and I study the angels so I can study God.

[4:40] But don't study God for the sake of knowing anything else. That's it. That's the end, right? So, in sense, these knowledge of the lower things for the sake of the higher things. So, wisdom, which is a knowledge of the highest thing, is going to be the only knowledge that is fully for its own sake, right? And therefore, fully what liberal. Do you see that? So That's the second thing he says about this kind of knowledge.

[5:12] So he talks about the proportion there, but as we call a man free, that is for himself and not for another, while a slave is for the sake of another, right, for his master. So this alone is free among the sciences, for this alone is for the sake of itself. You might want to say fully, right, for its own sake. You see how that follows from the first thing?

[5:42] Now the third thing is, someone might say, "Well, just a minute now. " It's not very practical what you're saying, Mr. Burgess. You see, Aristotle is fully aware of the fact that this doesn't seem to be the kind of knowledge that fits the human condition, right? And notice, son, if you go back in history, people sometimes could spend their whole day trying to get the necessities of life, and maybe not get them always, son.

[6:14] Maybe every day I go hunting or berry gathering or something, right? And some days I'm lucky in the hunt, and some days I'm unlucky, right? So some days I have a feast, other days I what? Go to bed hungry, right? You see. So,

[6:32] in primitive conditions and the economy and so on, say a man might spend his whole life just trying to get the necessities of life, right? And not even worry about the comforts of life, right?

[6:48] So he says, hence it might justly be thought that is not a human position, right? Man has all these needs of his body, and maybe needs of his family, right? Needs of his house, his car, right?

[7:05] Someone said, you know, it's always something that needs to be done in the house. That's something true about the car, right? You know, when you get to be my age, one day you go see the doctor. You know, what's going to be need to be fixed now? You know, what is what is breaking down, or what is, you know? And now he says it's because it's kind of an obvious thing, but for in many ways, he says the nature of man is what enslaved, right?

[7:36] Okay. Now, notice, huh? We could say that to some extent we're enslaved to our body, right? I got to feed this body, right? I got to clothe this body, right? I got to have a chair for this body to recline on, right, or a bed to lie on, or something like a bed, right? So, in a way, my soul and my reason are enslaved to the needs of my what body, and as I say, it might take me all day to to provide for the needs of my body in some cases, right?

[8:14] I got to give my body some rest, some sleep at night, huh? Then I'm enslaved to maybe what paying my children's college education, right? Okay. But I need money for all these things, so I'm enslaved to some job, you know, to get the money, right? You see? Okay.

[8:38] So I'm enslaved to my car, right? Got a flat, or it just stops, you know? Won't go. Okay. Got to be taken to the garage, right? Okay. This is apart from you know the fact that some men are slaves in society right. That's but but apart from that you know these kinds of slaverys, and then in addition men are often enslaved to their passions right. Like Saint Paul says you know when you sin you become a slave of something right.

[9:23] But some men are a slave of anger right. Some men are a slave of their desire for drink or, dire desire for drugs or whatever it might be right. Other men are a slave of their envy huh. Right. So there's all kinds of maybe slavery kind of responsible for right. So Aristotle leads you to multiply. I gave a talk right on one time in this one sentence.

[9:50] In many ways the nature of man is enslaved right I mean but you can go on and on and on the way we're we're enslaved huh. Shakespeare calls custom a tyrant right huh. Yeah. But people are enslaved to custom. They're enslaved to fashion right.

[10:07] They're enslaved to error. Right. Huh. So see how much slavery man is. You got to be pursuing this knowledge that is entirely free doesn't fit the human what condition right. He says even the famous poet here Simonides huh. Says this belongs to God not to man. God alone can have this honor right. And he's starting to anticipate right this is going to be more divine knowledge than human possession right.

[10:38] But he quotes Simonides huh. Man however, is not worthy to seek knowledge for itself. Now. In the world historian there McNeill's book there The Rise of the West. I remember inside there there's a picture of a religious vase from Sumeria which I guess is where civilization first began right. And the religious vase has got three levels on it huh. And up here are the gods represented. here are men.

[11:18] And here is the beasts right. And they think the meaning of the vase is that the beasts were made to relieve man of some of his what labors right. So the ox helps you to plow the field right. And the dog helps you to keep the flock in order and the horse helps you to get from one town to another and so on right. So the beasts in a way are enslaved to men right To relieve man of some of his.

[11:46] But the men are the slaves of the gods right. So you bring your food to the temple for the gods and so on so the gods the ones then that live this free life right huh. They think. So Simonides. Speaks as if God would be envious if you tried to pursue this knowledge that is belonging to him, right?

[12:13] Now he says if the poets are saying something and the divine is able to envy, right? It is likely, especially to happen about this. And unfortunate are all those who excel in knowledge. But the divine is not able to be envious, right? Because envy is a form of what sadness, right? Nothing bad can happen to God, right? In its divine nature. Besides that, the man who's envious thinks that somebody else's good is what diminishing is, right?

[12:45] That God couldn't make that mistake of thinking that the good that we partake of from Him is diminishing His good, right? So Aristotle, that's ridiculous, and the divine is not able to be envious. Of course, we know that envy came into the world through the devil, huh? And according to the proverb, poets say many false things. Okay, but notice how nevertheless this criticism enables him to say that it's not really a human possession, right?

[13:15] That man is enslaved to all these needs, right? And you know, they might decide, You know, the Greeks they're always at war. You know, I'm going to be a soldier tomorrow, right? I can't philosophize. them out fighting my country's battles, right? You see, so it's not the sort of thing that man can use or pursue whenever he wants to, right? He's got to have unusual circumstances where he's able to pursue this kind of knowledge.

[13:41] And most men will be taken up with necessities of life or the amusements of life, right? Maybe they don't even get enough to satisfy them with those, right? Let alone pursuing these higher things. Hence, there is something more divine about this, right, than human about it. So then he goes on to the fourth and last thing. Nor must any other knowledge be thought to be more honorable, for the most divine is most what honorable, right?

[14:18] Now, he wants to show a little bit that wisdom is the most what divine knowledge, and he's going to point out that there is two ways in which you could say knowledge is divine,

[14:34] just as there is two ways you could speak of knowledge as being human, and one is that it's what about human beings, right? And another way that's had by human beings, right? Okay. So history is human knowledge in both senses, human, right? It's had by humans about human beings, right? But say chemistry might be human knowledge in the sense that human beings have this knowledge, but it's not about human things, right?

[15:10] So Aristotle is going to say wisdom is the most divine knowledge in both senses. It's a knowledge which God most of all would have, and it's a knowledge about God. Okay.

[15:29] But the most divine is only said in two ways, for that which God most of all would have is the most divine of sciences,

[15:41] and if it were of divine things, right? But this alone has both of these, for God seems to all to be among the causes and the beginning, and such knowledge God alone or most of all would have, right? Okay. Now, what's he saying? You could say, let's get ourselves a little room here on the board. You could

[16:19] say wisdom is about the first cause. That's something we showed in the first part of the proemium, right? And then he takes, he's not going to try to prove it at this point, but he takes just the common opinion of men, right? That God is the first cause, right?

[16:46] But the first cause is God. Then you can syllogize that wisdom is about God, right? So that's one way in which you might say wisdom is divine knowledge. It's a knowledge of God, right?

[17:13] Now, the other way you can say wisdom is divine is God alone, or most of all, is wise. Aristotle doesn't try to syllogize this, but he takes this simply as the common opinion of all the great philosophers before him, as well as his own opinion, right?

[17:40] Now, let's just recall that a bit here. Legend has it that Pythagoras was the first man to call himself a what? Philosopher, right? And the occasion was when his contemporaries were calling him wise. You're wise, Pythagoras, right? These great discoveries of Pythagoras, like the Pythagorean theorem and so on, right? And Pythagoras says, "Don't call me wise. God alone is wise," he said. Huh? What shall we call you then?

[18:15] And Pythagoras said, "Well, if you got to call me something, call me a lover of wisdom, right?" So, as I mentioned before, there is a humility in the origin of the name philosopher, right? Etymologically, it means a lover of wisdom, right? But in giving himself that title or saying you can call me that and don't call me wise, God alone is wise. He's admitting that man doesn't have wisdom at all, or in a very inferior way compared to the way God has it, right?

[18:46] So there's a humility there that man's wisdom is, if he has any at all, is something vastly inferior to God. A second example. If we take Heraclitus there, the central thinking human thought, we have two beautiful proportions that come down to us from Heraclitus. And one is that as a child is to a man, so is man to God, right? Well, you know that to a little boy, daddy seems to what know everything, right?

[19:23] But in comparison to what God, man is like a little boy, right? Okay. That shows that same humility, right? And that the wisdom of man is vastly inferior to God. If you can use the word wisdom at all for man, right? Okay. And then the other proportion of Heraclitus is as an ape is to a man, so is man to God, right? He says as the ape is ugly, and so on in comparison to man inferior knowledge to man, so on, right?

[20:02] So man compared to God like an ape, huh? So that's a beautiful way of putting man in his his place, right? Sometimes you know I say you know what is the scientific name for man? I ask the students, and usually someone comes out with Homo sapiens. They've heard that, right? Well, Homo, though in Latin means human being, the biologists use Homo for any man-like thing. So it's like an ape, you might say, huh?

[20:32] But sapiens means wise, huh? So in calling man the wise ape, are they contradicting the philosophers? Well, in comparison to the ape, he is wise, but in comparison to God, he'd be like the Homo that's not sapiens, right? You see.

[20:52] Now you find the same thing there in the apology of Socrates, right? Where he gives his little business of his life there, and the Oracle of Delphi, right? The good friend of Chaerephon, the good friend of Socrates, went down to the Oracle of Delphi, and he asked the Oracle, "Is anybody wiser than Socrates?" And the Oracle replied, "No one is wiser than Socrates." And Socrates says, "Well, how could the Oracle be saying that?

[21:22] Truly, huh? I'm so ignorant, right?" But then he started to ask those who had reputation for knowing something or who claimed to know something. He found out that they didn't know what they claimed to know, right?

[21:37] Oh, that must be what the Oracle meant. He said, "Right, I know that I don't know, right? But these guys don't even know that they don't know, right? They don't know either, but they don't know they don't know. So they're doubly ignorant, right? They're really dumb, right? See, so man's Wisdom consists more in knowing that he doesn't know, right, than in knowing much, right. So, you know, Socrates again is saying that man is not wise the way God is, right.

[22:09] Even if Socrates is correctly said by the oracle to be wiser than other men, it's not because he knows something like God knows everything, right. But because maybe he knows he doesn't know, right. Okay, so it's very rare that Socrates claims to know anything, right.

[22:27] Now you find Aristotle saying the same thing here, right? Either we should say God alone is wise, right. Or God most of all, right. Okay, either you shouldn't say man is wise at all if you mean wisdom in any full sense, right. Or if you say man is wise in some way, it's in some imperfect way, right. Just like knowing what is said of all in some way, imperfect way, he knows all things, right.

[22:57] Just like when I know what a human being is in some way, and everybody in this world. But in a very what, imperfect way, right. Yeah.

[23:09] So Aristotle doesn't bother to syllogize to that second thing, because all the great Greek philosophers would agree about this, huh? It's only the moderns that think they're wiser than God or don't have that humility, you know. It's a real difference, huh? It's kind of interesting, you know. The first dialogue that I read of Plato there in the introduction to philosophy is the Meno, right.

[23:37] And the best guy there, as far as being led by Socrates, is the slave boy, right. And the slave, the boy has the humility, right. To admit his mistake and learn what he didn't know, right. The other guys don't. They're too proud of him to get angry, right. Now, sometimes instead of using a word, I like to use a speech, right? And I'd like to do that. So,

[24:15] instead of saying that wisdom is the most divine knowledge, I mean saying divine in two senses, right? It's about the divine, right? And it's had by the divine, most of all. Just like when you speak of knowledge as being human, you have those same two senses, right? And so when we speak of humanities, that's human in both senses. It's supposed to be right. It's had by humans about human beings, right?

[24:48] But I like to use sometimes the the phrase and say wisdom is is the knowledge of God. But the knowledge of God in what? Both senses of that phrase, right? The knowledge of God could mean or it could refer to the object of that knowledge, right? What you are knowing in that knowledge, right? Or it could refer to the one who has the knowledge, right? So the phrase, the speech, or knowledge of God has two meanings.

[25:33] And in both meanings, wisdom is the knowledge of God. It's a knowledge about God, and it's a knowledge had alone or most of all by God. And since God is the best and most honorable thing, then this must be the best and most honorable knowledge, right? Now that's a syllogism, right? You say you say wisdom is the most divine knowledge. What's most divine is most honorable or best, right?

[26:07] Therefore, wisdom is the best and most honorable knowledge, right? Okay. Now, just to familiarize yourself with that phrase again, huh? Um, you've heard me give the definition of reason from my teacher Shakespeare, okay? And Shakespeare defines reason as the ability for large discourse, looking before and after, right? Now, is the definition of reason a knowledge of reason? What'd you say?

[26:52] In what sense of knowledge of reason? What reason is? It's a knowledge of what reason is, yeah. But who has that knowledge by definition?

[27:10] What defines things and knows them by definition? For the eyes and the ears and the sense of taste? The mind. Yeah, the reason does, right? So the definition of reason, right, is a knowledge of reason in both what senses, right?

[27:47] In both senses. You see that? It's a knowledge had by reason about reason, right? Okay. Now, what about the definition of square, an equilateral right-angled quadrilateral? Is that a knowledge of reason?

[28:19] In one sense, it is, right? It's a knowledge had by reason, right? It's that distinct knowledge which reason has of what the square is, right? It's an equilateral and right-angled quadrilateral. But is a knowledge about reason itself? No. You see that? Okay.

[28:44] So let's take another little thing here. Aristotle has a work called the De Anima in Latin. Peri Psyches in Greek about the soul, right? Okay. Now,

[29:07] the three books about the soul are a knowledge of the soul. In both senses or one sense? I think it's both senses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In other words, the De Anima is a knowledge which our soul has of itself, right? So it's a knowledge of the soul in both senses, right? Now, is geometry a knowledge of the soul? In one sense, it is. Yeah, it's a knowledge had by our soul, right?

[29:51] But it's not a knowledge about the soul. You see the definition? Yeah. Okay. So just as the three books about the soul are a knowledge of the soul in both senses of that, and the definition of reason is a knowledge of reason in both senses of knowledge of reason, right? So wisdom is a knowledge of God in both what senses of knowledge of God?

[30:24] Wouldn't certain wise men put down this dictum at Delphi. Know thyself right? And you could say that is, in one way, among other things, urging us, our soul, to pursue a knowledge of what the soul is, huh? Okay. You know how in the modern world they don't ask, don't think about the soul is anymore. let alone understand what the soul is, right? Well, if you don't even think about what the soul is, you're never going to understand what the soul is, huh?

[31:02] In the first book about the soul, after Aristotle has his proemium as usual, right? He goes through what all his predecessors thinking about the soul involved, right? And they all thought about what the soul is, but none of them knew what it was. It's not until the beginning of the second book about the soul that Aristotle succeeds in understanding what the soul is. So it took the Greeks, you know, a couple hundred years, you might say, right?

[31:29] Thinking about what the soul is before one man finally came to know what the soul is. But we don't even think about what the soul is anymore, right? Okay. Do I have a soul? I know it's news to me.

[31:47] Shakespeare's wise than that, right? Huh? I always quote the line in in. What's the play there, Beatrice? Much ado about nothing, right? Where hero, the girl, is falsely accused, right? Huh? And her cousin Beatrice knows that she's, what? Innocent. Yeah, yeah. And

[32:17] Beatrice's friend Benedict wants to know: Is she sure that hero, you know, has been falsely accused, right? I'm sure that she's innocent, as I have a soul. she says. You know? Maybe somebody asked me, you know, was George Washington the first president of the United States? And I'd say yes, right? You see, are you sure about that, Mister Burquist? I want to emphasize: I am very sure about saying I'm as sure about that as I am that two plus two is four.

[32:43] Okay, that's kind of you know. But her phrase was, "I'm as sure, you know, as I have a soul, right? " Because they eventually have a soul, the word means, right? So I don't know what the word means. I don't want to think about the thing. They For it's your idea. Don't understand what the soul is.

[33:02] But he's also urging us to follow Shakespeare someone who tells us what reason is, right? You know, because in a strict sense, reason is the only part of us that can know itself, right?

[33:19] And so, when reason defines reason, then reason has a knowledge of itself. So that definition of reason is a knowledge of the soul, is a knowledge of reason in both senses, right? It's kind of interesting to see that.

[33:41] So Aristotle writes the book on on Sophistical refutations, and he talks about the six kinds of mistakes from words, right? And then the seven kinds of mistakes outside of words, right? From something outside of words, but the first two kinds of mistakes from words are where a single word has more than one sense, or where a speech like knowledge of God, right, has more than one sense, huh?

[34:15] And where, someone mixes up these, right? Okay. Um. So maybe in one sense I might say that our theology is a knowledge of God, right? In another sense, I might say it's not a knowledge of God, right?

[34:44] And you wouldn't mix up those two senses, do you? Okay. Or I might say that the definition of of square is and is not a knowledge of reason, right? You see, and you are apparently contradicting yourself, right? But you are not, huh? Because the sense in which the definition of square is a knowledge of reason is not the sense of knowledge of reason. You say it's not a knowledge of reason, right?

[35:11] Do you see that? See, you should be, you know, it's important. I kind of like those those phrases though, knowledge of reason, knowledge of the soul, and now supreme example, knowledge of God, right now. Okay. That's kind of nice, huh?

[35:29] Another one of my favorite ones is is the phrase "Word of God," right now. Say the Word of God in one sense is about the Word of God, in another sense.

[35:51] It's kind of nice because you tied the two together in your mind, right? It's kind of clear when you read Vatican II that the greatest books of the Bible are the Gospels, right? And everything, in a sense, prepares the way for the Gospels or or builds upon them. But the Gospels are about the Word of God made flesh, right? Because sometimes you apply, you know, the Word of God made flesh to the Bible, you know, the sense, huh?

[36:14] God speaking in a kind of human language to us, so the Word of God becomes flesh. But two different senses of Word of God, huh? Um. But one is about the other, right? Okay. What's beautiful about this here, too, although Aristotle's not pointing out here, you'd be the twelfth book of wisdom to point out. But you could say the knowledge of God, meaning the knowledge that God has, right, is chiefly a knowledge what of God, right now.

[36:46] God knows nothing else except by knowing Himself, right? So the knowledge of God, the knowledge that God Himself has, right, is primarily. In knowledge of God, okay.

[37:07] Nothing less could define his his knowledge, as Aristotle says in the twelfth book. That's kind of interesting, right? But that's not Aristotle's point here so much, right? He's talking about wisdom is the knowledge of God in these two senses, right? Wisdom is the knowledge of the first cause. The first cause is God. Therefore, wisdom must be knowledge of God, huh? And then, as we think, God is being what wiser than men, right?

[37:36] Now, so it's a kind of knowledge also that God Himself would have, right? But when we study God's knowledge in the twelfth book, we see that what God chiefly knows is Himself, okay. And Thomas will bring that out very much, huh?

[38:10] Now he used the term "there more honorable," right? Huh? As he says at the end here, all other kinds of knowledge are more necessary than this, right? But none is better, right? So he's saying this knowledge is the best and the most what honorable, right? Okay. But the syllogism for that is that it's what the most divine, right? Okay. So you have two syllogisms here at the end.

[38:38] One is that wisdom is the most divine knowledge, right? The most divine knowledge is the best and most honorable. Therefore, wisdom is the best and most honorable knowledge, right? Then you have a syllogism leading up to one of those things, right? Wisdom is the knowledge of the first cause. The first cause is God. The first cause is God. Therefore, wisdom is a knowledge of God, right? But that wisdom is a knowledge had most of all by God, right?

[39:04] He just takes what's you know. All the philosophers agree, right? All the great Greek philosophers agree about that—that either God will be called wise, or only God wise in the full sense. Yeah, you don't have that humility in the modern philosophers.

[39:23] It's really kind of. I was reading Thomas's commentary there, exposition there, the Gospel of Saint Matthew, right? And he was talking about the the the fall there of Peter, right? Huh? Okay. And how Peter fell because of what pride, right? Okay, in some sense, even though all the rest of these guys, the rest of you, abandon him, I won't. See, and even after that, you know, you know, he's relying upon himself in a sense rather than upon God, right?

[40:04] And even you know, Christ has said, you know, the flock will be dispersed, right? And he's and he's believing not believing Christ, right? So, and Thomas makes a very great statement that God hates pride, right? You know, that's part of the reason why he allows what Peter to fall, right? So he'll learn humility. The other reasons, you know, sometimes given, you know, if Peter's going to be the head of the church, and you want him to be merciful and not, you know, overly severe, right?

[40:36] And to recognize, you know, his weakness as a man, right? Um, but but humility is the reason Thomas giving there in the commentary. It's kind of interesting, huh? God hates pride, huh? But in the Summa Contra Gentiles, Thomas calls that presumption of pride the the mater erroris, right? The mother of error.

[41:03] And Aristotle talks about that too, huh? Pride being the cause of error, so it's on the side of the heart, you know. So I think the humility of the Greek philosophers has something to do with the fact that they got somewhere finally. Took a long time, you know. But the the pride of the modern philosophers

[41:35] is the one of the main causes of their downfall, right? And it's kind of interesting, you know. Reflecting recently, there I've spoken before of you know how these most commonly read book of Plato and the. Introduction to philosophy is around the country even. For me, it was common work. Not everybody has it in his introduction to philosophy, but it is the apology, right? Sure. But that there are these four dialogues that are often mixed with the apology.

[42:10] Hmm. Two leading up the Meno and the Euthyphro and then two following the Crito and the Phaedo And they're all connected in various interesting ways. But in the Meno you have the example of the humility of the what slave boy, right? You see. And Socrates has two conversations with slave boy. The first one where he shows him that he's mistaken about the double square, right? And the second conversation where he actually teaches him, although he denies he's teaching him, how to double square, right?

[42:42] But you know, it's like our Lord when he sees the pride in the apostles there, and he says he calls it, talks about little boy there, right? Unless you become like him, you'll never enter the kingdom of heaven, right? Unless you have the humility of the slave boy, right? You'll never become a what true philosopher, right? Okay. So it's kind of beautiful that he has a representation of the slave boy.

[43:03] You know, he's a nobody in that society, right? But you also said at the same time, if you're somebody, right, and you have a reputation for position and so, on you're not going to be so apt to admit that you're mistaken.